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Everything One Needs To Know About Toning

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Demarco Bishopp's Avatar
United Kingdom
548 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2013  03:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Demarco Bishopp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@stev18

There's simply no way a coin can be exposed to the atmosphere of this planet for 100+ years without becoming toned. Technically a toned coin is a slightly damaged coin, but it's natural and unavoidable damage brought apart by the age of the coin as opposed to human interference.

Toning does very little to affect the physical surface of the coin. Any detail on the coin will stay intact, although obviously the original luster (the shine) will be lost.
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BStrauss3's Avatar
United States
4593 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2013  09:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
(per coin chemistry)

Toning is the conversion of the surface Ag atoms to Silver Sulphide (Ag2S).

If the layer is less than about 50nm (nanometers) it's not visible to the human eye. More than about 150nm it appears black. So the pretty colors represent a spectrum from 50nm (yellow) to 150nm (dark blue).

For reference a human hair is typically 90 microns or 90,000 nm.

The atomic radius of Ag is 165pm (picometers) or 0.165 nanometers.

about 300 atoms converted = yellow
about 900 atoms converted = black

-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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stev18's Avatar
United States
329 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2013  8:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stev18 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
2 different but interesting explanations in a row! Thanks guys!
So this would be why I read about people putting sulfur with coins to tone them. If that creates the same reaction and makes silver sulfide on the coin surface, how could a TPG ever slab a coin artificially toned if using this method?
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BStrauss3's Avatar
United States
4593 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2013  8:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Prove it... that's the rub. How do you prove it was intentional exposure instead of years of incidental exposure.

But since it is exactly the same chemically (and I don't see differences in the 2 responses) that's why a purist doesn't differentiate between pretty and damaged.

Pretty sells for more and IMNSHO is why TPG doesn't downgrade...

-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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ArrowsAndRays's Avatar
United States
1660 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2013  8:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ArrowsAndRays to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Today's toning is yesteryear's tarnish. Never 'adds' to a coin, in my opinion.
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BStrauss3's Avatar
United States
4593 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2013  8:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Plus - and this is really shaky chemistry, it's been 30 years and I wasn't THAT good to begin with - there is a difference in the compound size, so there IS metal movement.

2 Ag atoms have a bond length of 288.9nm, so the Ag2 (Ag = Ag) molecule is 160nm x 608.9nm.

The S bond length is 205nm, plus 100nm for the atom itself, and there are two bonds (Ag - S - Ag). I believe it bends, so it's not straight, but straight would be 160nm x 830nm or each silver atom moves 110nm.

Can you see it? No - the limit of the human eye is half a hair or 45,000 nm. But if you remove that 150nm of coating, is it really the same surface that came from the mint?

If I scrape off 1 layer of skin, do you notice? Probably not as it doesn't cause pain. Scrape off 50 layers of skin and your nerves will scream bloody murder.
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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nalaberong's Avatar
Canada
2805 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2013  9:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nalaberong to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, it is bent. I'm getting a test on this next week :O
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stev18's Avatar
United States
329 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2013  11:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stev18 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bstrauss by the two different explanation comments I just meant you broke it Dow chemically and the other response was more in leymans terms combining the two gave me a full understanding! It was just a comment to both of you :)
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