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How Far Back Can We Go? Second Edition! Ended At 1492 Waiting On 1491

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jgenn's Avatar
United States
1156 Posts
 Posted 11/29/2014  12:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jgenn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1667 Spanish Netherlands Patagon, Bruges mint.

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Second-Edition!-Ended-At-1492-Waiting-On-1491

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Second-Edition!-Ended-At-1492-Waiting-On-1491
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Petrus's Avatar
Belgium
2895 Posts
 Posted 11/29/2014  3:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petrus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Patagon Spanish Netherlands, FlandersCAROL.II.D.G.HISP.ET.INDIAR.REX
Carolus secundus Dei Gratia Hispaniarum et Indiarum rex
Charles the second, by Gods grace, king of Spain and India
ARCHID.AUST.DUX.BURG.CO.FLAN.Z
Archidux Austriae dux Burgundiae comes Flandriae etc
Archduke of Austria, duke of Burgundy, count of flanders and so on.
The strange Z with the strike through means ectcetera. That symbol has a long history.
I have a nice long (ducth) explanation if anyone is intrested.

I live in Flanders and I do not find such a coin!
How do these get in the USA?
Nice coin Jgenn
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jgenn's Avatar
United States
1156 Posts
 Posted 11/29/2014  5:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jgenn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, Petrus. I bought this one on ebay just last year.
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Medieval's Avatar
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 Posted 11/29/2014  7:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Medieval to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Second-Edition!-Ended-At-1492-Waiting-On-1491 How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Second-Edition!-Ended-At-1492-Waiting-On-1491

1/16 Thaler 1667 from Glueckstadt (at that time a Danish possession)

Obverse: .FRIDER.3.D:G.D.N.N.V.G.REX. around crowned bust right
Reverse: .'mm'.MONETA.NOVA.GLVCKSTAD around circle with 4 line inscription .XVI. / EREIC / HSTHA / .1667.
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 Posted 11/30/2014  12:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Medieval to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Second-Edition!-Ended-At-1492-Waiting-On-1491 How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Second-Edition!-Ended-At-1492-Waiting-On-1491

(AE) Schilling 1666 TLB from the Grand-Duchy of Lithuania, issued under Johann Casimir, King of Poland (1648-1668)

Obverse: IOAN. CAS.REX around laureate head of Johann Casimir right, T.L.B below
Reverse: crown SOLI.MAG.DUC.LIT 1666 around Vytis on horseback left
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Belgium
2895 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2014  02:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petrus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Schilling, solidus or boratynka
(more info in 1665)
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 Posted 12/01/2014  12:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Medieval to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Second-Edition!-Ended-At-1492-Waiting-On-1491 How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Second-Edition!-Ended-At-1492-Waiting-On-1491

Liard 1665 from the Lordship of Tournai, under Philip IV of Spain

Obverse: PHIL IIII D G HISP ET INDIAR REX around crowned arms, date at sides
Reverse: ARCHID AVS DVX BVRG D TORC around shields and crowns
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Belgium
2895 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2014  12:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petrus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1665
1 solidus (schelling, shilling...) or boratynka
Lithuania
Johan Casimir II (1609-1672)
King of Poland
SOLI.MAG.DVC.LIT1665 : SOLIDUS MAGNUS DUCATUS LITHUANIAE
solidus of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania
IOAN.CAS.REX : IOANNES CASIMIRUS REX
King John Casimir
TLB : 1660-66 Titus Livijus Boratini, mintmaster
Privy mark : KHPL : Jeronimas Kryspinas
Vilnius munt
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Second-Edition!-Ended-At-1492-Waiting-On-1491

1 solidus (schelling, shilling...) or boratynka
Poland
Johan Casimir II (1609-1672)
King of Poland
SOLID.REG.POLO.1665 : SOLIDUS REGIS POLONIAE
solidus of the kingdom Poland
IOAN.CAS.REX : IOANNES CASIMIRUS REX
King John Casimir
TLB : 1660-66 Titus Livijus Boratini, mintmaster
Pirvy mark : black raven: John Casimir Krasinski
Mint: Ujazdow
Centershield on the eagle is the coat of arms of the Waza dynasty (sheaf of grain)
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Second-Edition!-Ended-At-1492-Waiting-On-1491

I found this on a polish Wikipedia page
The boratynka was the popular, informal name of a copper penny of John Casimir, struck in the Republic in the years 1659-1668. The name comes from Boratini, who has an intresting history in the minting of these coins.

The Second Northern War, called in Poland the "Swedish invasion, caused a severe economic and monetary crisis in the Polish Commonwealth. The Treasury was unable to meet its obligations, especially for the military. The manager of Krakow, Livy Boratini, proposed to launch a small copper coin, which would have the official value of a silver coin, or a third of the grosz. Parliament approves the project despite the fact that a new copper penny had no real value. Copper weight was the value of a third of a cent, or 1/90 of the Polish zloty.

The designated officials limits the buyer's shilling for an amount of 182.291 Polish Zloty (Krakow) and 817.708 zloty for grosz and one million zlotys for the Grand Duchy Ujazdowska, where in 1659 specially for striking new shilling (solidus) a factory was opened. Boratini was accused of illegally storing coins. He was confronted with the allegations in 1662, when Parliament ordered to put an end to the minting of the boratynek. However, due to the continuing problems with the Treasury, the minting was resumed in 1663 and extended also for coins of Lithuania, and treated as the only possible way for the collapse of the Treasury.

1 pound (405 grams) of copper Boratini was struck for 300 solidus, officially 100 cents. 57 cents went to state, the rest took the Mint. Despite the huge profits of Boratini, he cheated the Treasury even more by going over the limit, from which the state got nothing. Again he was accused, until in 1666 the Mint closed in Ujazdowska. Eventually the striking the copper solidus stops in 1668. Huge amounts of copper solidus' were put into circulation by counterfeiters. The forger is threatened with torture, cutting off his right hand, then death by beheading. The prospect of a large and easy profits resulted in taking risks. It is estimated that counterfeiting accounts for about a tenth, with up to a total of about 1.8 billion coins.

The boratynka named after Boratini, which is the official forgery, helps to get the treasury out of debt. However, this resulted in the increase of the monetary chaos in Poland, even in the early eighteenth century. For example, in 1664 a ducat was 195 cents in silver. The boratynka was theoretically the same, but in fact there were 270 pennies, or 810 solidus. This amount boratynkas weighed more than a kilo. Dissatisfaction of the soldiers on the payment of salaries with the bad coin caused revolts, they were more susceptible to the propaganda of the enemies of the king and joined voluntarily with the Lubomirski rebellion (no longer paying the salaries of the boratynki was one of the demands of the rebels).
The proverb "like a bad coin" comes probably from the boratynka.
The Lithuanian solidus was struck in the following mints:
Ujazdów: mintmark black raven: 1660, 1661, 1665, 1666, 1667
Oliwa: mintmark sheaf Wieniawa: 1663, 1665, 1666
Vilnius: mintmark HKPL: 1664, 1665, 1666, 1668
Kovno: mintmark HKPL: 1665, 1666
Brest: mintmark HKPL: 1665, 1666, 1667
Malbork: mintmark HKPL: 1666
HKPL: Hieronima Kryszpin podskarbi litewski: Jerome Kryszpin Lithuanian treasurer

Corrections welcome
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Medieval's Avatar
3772 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2014  5:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Medieval to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice pair of coins 'Petrus', my next Johann Casimir has to wait for 1661. Have another but the last digit of the date cannot be read.
Edited by Medieval
12/01/2014 5:25 pm
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 Posted 12/02/2014  12:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Medieval to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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15 Kreuzer 1664 Duchy of Silesia-Liegnitz-Brieg, Christian (of Brieg) (1664-1672)

Obverse: .D:G.CHRISTIAN.DUC (XV) SIL.L.B.&WOLAV: around bust right
Reverse:*MONATA'NOVA (crossed globe) ARGENTEA 1664 around eagle, wings open, head facing left
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 Posted 12/02/2014  03:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add davidrj to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
and another Lithuanian solidus - 1664

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 Posted 12/02/2014  03:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Medieval to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
another Lithuanian solidus


Quite fashionable coins those.
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1893 Posts
 Posted 12/02/2014  09:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mysilveryears to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Avatar coin from Sweden; shown previously in the original 'HFBCWG' thread.
The missing 4 in the 1664 date is easier to determine with the coin in hand.
This is the most androgynous depiction of a monarch I have ever seen on a silver coin.

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Second-Edition!-Ended-At-1492-Waiting-On-1491 How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Second-Edition!-Ended-At-1492-Waiting-On-1491
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 Posted 12/02/2014  6:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petrus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
solidus : minted by the millions!
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 Posted 12/03/2014  12:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Medieval to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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16 Maravedis 1663 Spain
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