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Third Party Grading Questions

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jolson's Avatar
United States
218 Posts
 Posted 12/10/2013  01:57 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jolson to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have been wondering something a bit now. I have read a lot of posts on CCF and one thing has struck me... It seems there is a strong negative opinion about TPG "grading" everything. If someone wants a poor coin slabbed and graded as a poor coin then what does it matter? If the TPG does an honest job how does that hurt anything? I would think, if anything, it would help the coin collecting community out because now you have a coin with an official poor score and it would be harder for someone to sell it off as a higher grade and "tricking" someone new.

In addition, I do not understand why there is such a negative opinion about graders who are not in the mainstream. It would seem that though there is a lot of objective criteria; there is still plenty of room for subjectivity. I guess it would be like buying a car, one appraiser my give it one value but another company or the dealer would say it is worth something else.

I guess, my point is, wouldn't it be better to have any graded coin then no graded coin, because unless you know what you are doing, then I would think this would help a lot... and if you do, already know what you are doing, then it doesn't matter what the "official" grade is because you can see and judge for yourself.
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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 12/10/2013  02:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I have read a lot of posts on CCF and one thing has struck me... It seems there is a strong negative opinion about TPG "grading" everything. If someone wants a poor coin slabbed and graded as a poor coin then what does it matter?


A lot of that comes across since when people ask if its worth to have something graded people answer from a purely financial stanpoint. With the exception of some low balls series financially they wouldnt be worth it, but if they have sentimental value and someone wants to do it for other reasons that shouldnt be looked down upon imo.


Quote:
I guess, my point is, wouldn't it be better to have any graded coin then no graded coin


Yes and no. Youre going to get a largely generational answer on that one. Older collectors spent most their lives without graded coins so understandably theyre more opposed to it. Younger collectors or people who started after the TPGs had made a name for themselves are much more open to it. It seems to be getting more popular as time go ones which is a trend that will likely continue with future generations.

For new collectors I think its a great way for them to be more confident in what they buy. Theyll still need to learn whats a good example of a grade and about eye appeal and all that, but its a lot harder to get taken advantage of on a graded coin with all the price history information available online. An ungraded coin you can have someone blow smoke about what it would grade, but I dont know a lot of people who would pay ms 67 money for something that says ms 65 on the label without some out of this world toning on it.
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jolson's Avatar
United States
218 Posts
 Posted 12/10/2013  02:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jolson to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you! That makes a lot of sense; and I agree there is no substitute for educating yourself, learning, and making your own informed choices. I also think that you are right that people will pay higher prices for some coins despite their grade or no grade. Someone may just need that one last coin to complete a series and thus their demand is higher. Also, your point about it making it harder for people to get smoke blown I agree with 100%.

I know that everyone loves mainstream things. However, like restaurants, sometimes it is the unknown, hole in the wall joint, that puts the big chain restaurants to shame.

Lastly, I can see your point where if you have a $2 Red Book coin and it costs $30 to grade that it would not make sense for someone to do that. However, if someone, like you said for personal reasons, decided to have it slabbed and graded how does that make the TPG look bad? Aren't they just doing their job? What business is it of TPGs to say, "No, I won't grade that coin..." If they say, "Look, we will grade this if you want but understand it's value is lower then the cost to grade..." If the buyer still agrees then why would the TPG look bad in that deal?
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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 12/10/2013  03:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
However, if someone, like you said for personal reasons, decided to have it slabbed and graded how does that make the TPG look bad?


To me it doesn't. Like you said theyre doing their job and I like the fact that they arent snobby about what theyll grade. For me theyd look worse and come off as elitist if they would only grade things of significant value.

I personally have some world coins in PCGS slabs that arent worth the cost of the plastic, but they were brought to me by my dad during his time in the Navy so I couldnt care less about whether or not it made financial sense. Ironically theyre the only ones I own I've never thought about selling/upgrading.

The TPGs have kind of done it already with the modern tier, but in a perfect world I wish they would offer and even cheaper submission tier for the cheap coins. Basically the Sentimental tier, maybe its your first coin or was passed down or has a special story behind it ect.

To put it bluntly, anyone who looks down upon sentimental slabbing is just being snobby about coins. The TPGS freely admit theres a lot of things not worth paying to put in their slabs from a financial standpoint, but its not their job to turn something away because its not worth enough if someone wants it.
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jolson's Avatar
United States
218 Posts
 Posted 12/10/2013  03:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jolson to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you! That helps a lot!
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BStrauss3's Avatar
United States
4590 Posts
 Posted 12/10/2013  10:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think you need to look at coins vs. stamps. Both are seeing a huge drop off in popularity, but because of the TPGs there remains interest in coins as an investment which has propped up the hobby a bit.
-----Burton
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Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 12/10/2013  11:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
In addition, I do not understand why there is such a negative opinion about graders who are not in the mainstream. It would seem that though there is a lot of objective criteria; there is still plenty of room for subjectivity. I guess it would be like buying a car, one appraiser my give it one value but another company or the dealer would say it is worth something else.


To leverage your car analogy, graders who are "not in the mainstream" will take your car which has been in a flood or totaled in an accident and pass it off to the buyer as undamaged and original. That's why we talk about the few companies we do as worthy; they're honest. The others aren't.

Numismatics is no place for unproven trust. That's why the TPG's were necessary in the first place.
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