Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin AuctionsJoin Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Specializing in Modern Numismatics Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer 300,000 items to help build your collection! Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes.








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

2011 P Rutherford Dollar. The Old And The Older.

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 11 / Views: 1,444Next Topic  
Valued Member

United States
136 Posts
 Posted 01/22/2014  1:06 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Carlos arriaga to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
These are coming from a ROLL OF NEW COINS from the bank I still having the rest of the 25 "NEW"

2011-P-Rutherford-Dollar.-The-Old-And-The-Older.

2011-P-Rutherford-Dollar.-The-Old-And-The-Older.

2011-P-Rutherford-Dollar.-The-Old-And-The-Older.Rutherford dollars.
There are so many lines on the forehead, wish make him to appear a little older.
Also the design of the jacket "on that particular line", is most curved than the original design.
And finally those marks in front of the mouth. Reeded? o die clash? Thank for your comments.
Pillar of the Community
7TF's Avatar
743 Posts
 Posted 01/22/2014  11:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 7TF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am thinking those are scratches and not in the die. Good eye though. The coat line does look a little different, it could just be differences in dies. I would hold onto it. You never know what others might spot on them down the road.
Valued Member
United States
136 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2014  08:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Carlos arriaga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank 7TF for the comment. Yep they seem like scratches on the fore head; call my attention only that: They are absolutely NEW COINS. those other marks are also in two different coins from the same roll.

2011-P-Rutherford-Dollar.-The-Old-And-The-Older.

2011-P-Rutherford-Dollar.-The-Old-And-The-Older.

2011-P-Rutherford-Dollar.-The-Old-And-The-Older.
Bedrock of the Community
coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2014  1:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like what they call "bag marks". That term is no longer used as the coin go directly into bins now. But the contact of them hitting each other probably did most of the damage before they were rolled. When you see the coins going into a bin you can see how this can happen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48P7yOBZczQ
Pillar of the Community
CoinCollector2012's Avatar
United States
8137 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2014  1:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCollector2012 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bag marks are very common on the higher points of a coins design.
Edited by CoinCollector2012
01/23/2014 1:59 pm
Valued Member
United States
136 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2014  2:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Carlos arriaga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank for the information about the BAG MARKS. It's something new for me.
Pillar of the Community
7TF's Avatar
743 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2014  4:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 7TF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So there are 2 coins with the exact same mark infront of the face on the coin? If so that is either a strange coincidence or maybe could be in the die that made the coins, perhaps Struck Through Grease of something. Please show full shots of both coins so we can help you determine.
Bedrock of the Community
coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2014  6:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Or it more are found a slight gouge into the die making this raise from the surface of your coins.
Valued Member
United States
136 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2014  07:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Carlos arriaga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

The one with the BAG MARK in front of the mouth. It's all ready in the post. This; is the second with that BAG MARK. But is behind the head. Now; the marks in the FORE HEAD most look like, "File marks" trying to eliminate some marks from die clash. That is what I think so, but I'm not sure.
2011-P-Rutherford-Dollar.-The-Old-And-The-Older.
Pillar of the Community
7TF's Avatar
743 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2014  11:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 7TF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Clashes usually only happen in the fields. Those Bag Marks are just that, scratches from coming in contact with other coins. The marks on the head are also bag marks/ coin abrasions. Sometimes you will find die file marks on the raised parts of coins but it is usually in the low lying areas like in between hair, etc.. http://www.vamworld.com/Attribution+101 Scroll down on this page I just linked to until you read Die Scratches/Gouges. Here is a good one that shows what die file lines look like, which are usually done to remove a gouge or die clash. http://www.vamworld.com/1921-S+VAM-1B3A

To pick up die file lines you need a camera that has a good macro lens, they are much less prevalent on newer coins but they still exist. I see them a lot on Lincoln Cents.

I would start looking at these things for the edge lettering varieties and Doubled Dies. There is so much hair it is possible there could be many different varieties of doubled dies in these, but they do a much better job these days of not making them than they did back in the day.

The only thing I can see with your pictures that stands out to me is the coat line is curved on one of the coins and not on the other. That could be a die variety but it could just be the lighting when you photographed the coins.

Another thing to think about it that, die file lines, die gouges, die scratches are all in the die and create a raised look on the actual coins the dies make. Die clashes will be a sunken in clashed letter if they are incused in the die and a raised letter if the letters are raised on the die, which is opposite of what the coins have when you look at a finished product. I hope I said that right.

It really takes some studying to understand this stuff. Take the letters of LIBERTY on a Morgan dollar for instance. When the dies are clashed, creating a Clashed E you will see it as a raised E on the reverse under the tail feathers. Just picture the 2 dies, which are opposite of what the coins look like clashing together with no coin between them. http://www.vamworld.com/1889-O+VAM-1A2

Now look at a Clashed In from In God We Trust on the reverse clashing onto an obverse die. It will be sunken in because the letters are incused on the actual die, not the finished product coin. http://www.vamworld.com/1878-P+VAM-41C

I hope I have not confused you or made any errors in my statements. I do hope I have turned you onto Silver Dollars though, because they are the coolest coins to collect if you like to really dig into what is going on with the dies.

Kris
Edited by 7TF
01/25/2014 12:08 am
Valued Member
United States
136 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2014  07:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Carlos arriaga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank Kris for all that information. That help me a lot to understand better specially the file marks. Thank again. The fact of Die clash "feature incuse". and "feature above surface". It's clear for me. The result is INVERSE. Thank again.
Pillar of the Community
7TF's Avatar
743 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2014  07:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 7TF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You are welcome Carlos. I am glad you understood it, because after I wrote it I was kind of confusing myself reading it, LOL.

Kris
  Previous TopicReplies: 11 / Views: 1,444Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.31 seconds to rattle this change. Forums