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Eric P Newman - Decoding The Provenance

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United Kingdom
13 Posts
 Posted 02/04/2014  09:10 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Accumulator to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I'm new here (though not to numismatics). Hopefully someone can help with a query?

I recently purchased a coin from Heritage's Newman sale. I appreciate that it's not a US coin, but the question is a general one and, given that the coin was most likely bought in the US, this is probably the best place to try for an answer.

The coin was supplied with the following envelope:

Eric-P-Newman---Decoding-The-Provenance

I understand from the Heritage cataloguer that $4.00 represents the original purchase price (it must have been very many years ago!) and that "mux" is likely to be a code for the auction house or dealer from who the coin was bought. What I'd really like to know is, who or what is "mux"? Knowing this would help extend the provenance of the coin further.

Any help much appreciated.
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BStrauss3's Avatar
United States
4592 Posts
 Posted 02/04/2014  09:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting that yours are typewritten, mine are handwritten. You know, we should write Mr. Newman care of the foundation and ask him.
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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United Kingdom
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 Posted 02/04/2014  09:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Accumulator to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's interesting. It would be a shame if the key to the 'code' was lost. I did look for an address for Mr Newman's Foundation but didn't find anything listed, otherwise I would have written.
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BStrauss3's Avatar
United States
4592 Posts
 Posted 02/04/2014  09:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Google for "Eric P Newman Foundation Missouri" finds

http://eric-p-newman-numismatic-edu...ion-society/

which lists

Name: Eric P Newman Numismatic Education Society
Address: 6450 CECIL AVE
ST LOUIS, MO 63105-2225

Added: Their 990s for 2013/2014 will be VERY interesting reading.
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
Edited by BStrauss3
02/04/2014 09:52 am
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Conder101's Avatar
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17884 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2014  09:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is a very good chance the key is lost. The mux, most likely is not a code of who it was bought from, it is much more likely the price code of the dealer it was purchased from and it represents what THAT dealer paid for it. Every dealer/shop had their own code and they didn't normally share them with others. If you have enough examples of a given dealers price code, and you know when the coins were purchased and what the general values were at the time you might be able to work out the code but good luck with that. Or if you can come up with enough examples the code can be worked out like a jumble puzzle. A difficulty here is that some dealers will throw in "nonsense" letters that have no meaning. In a few cases we do know the codes of some well known dealers, but unless we knew that this coin came from one of those dealers that doesn't help
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BStrauss3's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 02/05/2014  11:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Conder, I somewhat doubt that. EPN was a collector building a collection with a specific focus on quality for the long term. Some random dealer's code would have been meaningless, while information on the source would have been important.

One of my two just has a handwritten envelope (I don't have access to the image of the other at this point): Eric-P-Newman---Decoding-The-Provenance

I'm planning on sending a letter this weekend.

TTYL
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
New Member
United Kingdom
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 Posted 02/05/2014  12:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Accumulator to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've managed to talk to a gentleman who is numismatic advisor to the Eric P Newman Education Society and obtained some further interesting information. Also background which may help other purchasers of these coins.

"mux" (as has been suggested) is indeed a cost code, used by a St. Louis coin dealer Burdette G Johnson to represent his buy-in price of $1. Eric P Newman paid the stated $4 for the coin, from him.

A large number of EPN's coins apparently came, via Mr Johnson, from the Estate of "Colonel" E H R Green. My coin is not one of these, but the story of these coins, and the records kept, make an interesting read:

B G Johnson's Ledger: http://www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v16n13a12.html

"Colonel" E H R Green: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward...binson_Green

It is believed that my coin came from Armin Brand, son of a another noted collector Virgil Brand, but apparently they don't have absolute proof. Proof, though, may lie in papers held by the American Numismatic Society which are open to consultation. Here: http://numismatics.org/Archives/Vmbrandbio


Maybe a task for another day!

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BStrauss3's Avatar
United States
4592 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2014  4:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Really! Well, you learn something every day. Can't IMAGINE why that was important enough to keep, but cool to know. Thanks for sharing.
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 02/06/2014  6:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Often serious numismatists will keep the envelopes that previous owners kept the coins in. In EAC it is not unusual for a purchase of an important coins to come with half a dozen envelopes of previous owners, often with lots of hand written notes and comments on them. (Unless purchased from a major auction house as most of them simply discard the old envelopes and holders.)
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BStrauss3's Avatar
United States
4592 Posts
 Posted 02/06/2014  6:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sure, I've kept the two that came with my EPNNES lots. Guess Heritage is learning! Just was surprised that a price code was preserved.

-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
New Member
United Kingdom
13 Posts
 Posted 02/07/2014  02:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Accumulator to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Totally agree, Conder. I'm impressed that HA are passing on the envelope with the coin. I've bought a number of items from other houses, ex. Well-known collections, but completely lacking tickets, which must have been discarded. All the tickets I have will stay with the coins.
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