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 Replies: 16 / Views: 6,516 |
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Valued Member
United States
406 Posts |
Now here's something you don't see every day: This 1969 Canadian quarter was apparently struck on a 1963 British sovereign. Hard to see how something like this was anything other than intentional. Don't think "error" applies but I don't know anything about the actual coin. The recent posting of the U.S. Indian Head cent struck on a gold planchet reminded me of this, although there I think it was a blank gold planchet, not an already-struck coin. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...B:SS:US:1123Pretty cool regardless! Best Regards,  George |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
9864 Posts |
How many of these are there? This one sold recently at Heritage for $21,500  "Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2301 Posts |
1969, the year of the back door job :-)
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Pillar of the Community
1844 Posts |
lets see 1969 over 1963 ? hummmm Why was the 1963 gold on the press in 1969 ? Obviously man made and should be pulled as fake - counterfeit... OK the gold value is all that should apply as coin is defaced fraudulently ..Right ?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
9864 Posts |
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
Edited by DBM
02/16/2014 08:44 am
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Valued Member
 United States
406 Posts |
Quote:
Obviously man made and should be pulled as fake - counterfeit... They are neither fakes nor counterfeits or PCGS would not have certified them. They seem clearly to be clandestine strikes of genuine coins. To have this many similar off-metal strikes in a short time points to purposeful intent, it seems to me. They are just not "genuine errors" but rather "genuine back-door jobs" from what I can see. Best Regards, George Edited by giorgio11
02/16/2014 08:54 am
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Valued Member
Canada
386 Posts |
I am surprised to see this RCMP does not crack down on these clandestine strikings. If an RCM employee walked with legitimate striking(s) of any RCM coin, they would be charged with theft. I am surprised to see someone using RCM facilities to create "collectors items" on precious metal planchets is not with mis-use of government property. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
The 1970 50 cents on gold planchet, is part of the 1970 gold Manitoba 1 dollar coins that are available for seizure because of a court ruling where the 2 RCM employees were convicted for stealing these coins, and the judge ruled that the coins belong to the RCM. It's surprising the 50 cents is offered openly. |
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Valued Member
Canada
386 Posts |
john100, I am glad to see these illegal activities are being pursued by the court system. I am not surprised the mint sold the 1970 50 cents on gold planchet. The mandate of the RCM is to "... serve the public's interest while mandated to operate "in anticipation of profit", meaning that it functions in a commercial manner and does not rely on taxpayer support to fund its operations" Mint generates supplemental revenue by making coins for other countries, through the alloy recovery program and making collector coins and sets. Selling clandestine coins would just be another revenue stream. Edited by 1945V
02/16/2014 09:56 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
The RCM did not sell the 50 cents on a gold planchet, they were made by these two employees without consent and smuggled out of the mint and convicted for their efforts. My understanding is the RCM asked the judge to add in the ruling that the 1 dollar and 50 cent gold pieces are property of the RCM. One of the 1970 Manitoba gold coin was seized by US secret service before an major US auctions on a request of the RCM. I was offered the Manitoba coin at 2013 CAND show and another from a dealer at RCNA in Winnipeg both under the table, they are beautiful coins but dangerous to own, not sure of the 1969 coin on British coin. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
9864 Posts |
Quote:
I am not surprised the mint sold the 1970 50 cents on gold planchet. The mint did not sell any of these coins, they were fabricated without authorization and stolen by mint employees, thus the term "back door job". I too am glad to hear the courts are pursuing these activities. Perhaps fear of confiscation will drive down the ridiculous prices paid. It's a shame that such crap as these can sell for more than 1921 5cents. "Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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Valued Member
Canada
386 Posts |
john100 & DBM, Thanks for the clarification that the 50 cents on a gold planchet was not sold by the RCM. I also find it strange these illegal coins fetch more than 1921 5 cent and 50 cent coins. I guess, the key difference with owning special strikes is whether the RCM authorized it or not. Coins like the 1911 siver $1, 1944 tombac, 1967 nickel 10 and 25 cents were test strikes by the RCM and most are legally in private hands. Similarly in the US, the 1933 double eagle 20 dollar is illegal to own and several of these coins been confiscated by the Secret Service. However, limited strikes like the 1913 nickels are legally in private hands. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
The 1969 1 cent flipover double strikes, the 1967 50 cents and 1 dollar double strikes coins are for sure employee aided coins just due to the fact of massive numbers, they are catalogued accepted errors, in my opinion no different than these gold pieces. All really cool errors like the recent offered 4 chain struck nickel have some questions about their creation, I guess you just have to enjoy them as they are. The US mint I thing has a simple rule, if it wasn't smuggled out it's legal to own.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
593 Posts |
I have one of those Manitoba Gold 1 D coins in proof dated 1898. The Maple leaf with Buffalo and Victoria Regina. From a Canadian token collector Named Mike Locke who has a web site, I got the info about the coin. http://www.calgoldcoin.com/canada2.htm This was a vintage token made to order for Regency Coin and Stamp Co Ltd of Winnepeg in 1962. Greene#790 id for coin. Dies and some coins were seized by RCMP and not returned. About 200 pieces of each 1/2 D and 1D coins were made in proof format. I have had this since the 1960`s. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
I think we are talking about two different gold coins, the 1970 1 dollar Manitoba struck on a gold planchet all slabbed PCGS ms 63 or 64 there are some reports of 6 to 8 pieces. looks just like a nickel dollar version
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Pillar of the Community
778 Posts |
Thanks for this thread. I had not heard of the "fabricated without authorization" operation at the Mint! My quick thought on seeing this ebay item in a slab was that PCGS had goofed again. Not so, evidently. Bill |
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Replies: 16 / Views: 6,516 |
Posted 02/16/2014 08:31 am
