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 Replies: 10 / Views: 2,831 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1804 Posts |
Toning by PCGS is a plus or minus factor.
Thanks to CCF I was able to find information about guilds to PCGS toning issues, regarding a final MS-Grade.
If I understood it correctly, it brakes both ways at MS65. I was afraid to copy and past the info on the site.
(If), I remember correctly, there are 7 levels of toning, from awesome down to zippo (neg) on the varius grade level.
Maybe SsupperDdave (or Fuzzy or someone) will set us all straight on this issue.
Personally, I like (and so does PCGS) very even, medium to just under rich, top to bottom, east to west, (not blotchy etc) toning.
Now that I have the PCGS grading guilds, I like Toning even more.
Adds warmth, legitimacy, dignity, and adds to the final MS grade, resulting in greater coin value.
Thoughts? Edited by Domain555
02/22/2014 07:56 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1436 Posts |
IMHO, I don't think that is just the TPGs view, however, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. For me, attractive toning REALLY adds to the appearance and value of any coin. Blotchy or unattractive toning subtracts. I would absolutely pay more than book value for a coin w/ extremely attractive toning...
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
856 Posts |
Quote:
adds to the final MS grade, Um ... I disagree. A grade is a grade. Surely it depends on degree of wear alone? Not that I'm saying that tone might not make a coin more attractive and so I might be prepared to pay more. However, as Dave H says, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And my general feeling is that many collectors in the US like their toning rather more dramatic than most UK collectors. So .. some toning yes. Rainbows? No. That would result in a 'no sale' for me. Which is why I have reservations about TPGS giving opinions on the 'eye appeal' of coins. It's a personal preference IMHO and if it ends up feeling like I'm being told what I should and should not like, well, that's a step too far. |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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A grade is a grade. Surely it depends on degree of wear alone? Eye appeals part of a grade. Youre not going to turn a F 15 in an XF from eye appeal but that 15 could be a 20 if it looks fantastic. You wont get wild swings in the grade from eye appeal but slight bumps are possible. Even on coins with no eye appeal to most people they usually wont get knocked down if theyre strong on the technical side unless theres a huge price jump right there. Like if a MS 64 is 200 and a 65 is a 1k coin an "ugly" coin would probably get the 64 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1804 Posts |
 Example of top grade of toning "Amazing" by PCGS, on standards of grading coins If I understand their nomenclature, (quality) toning adds to the MS grade. Oh ... this is a copy and paste from PCGS |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
I don't see toning as adding anything to the numerical grade of a coin. Numerical grade is a strict function of physical preservation against a theoretical "perfect" original, subjective in nature but still fact-based. An MS65 is not MS66 because it's nicely-toned.
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Forum Dad
United States
24157 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1804 Posts |
SsuperDave Quote:
For Circulated coins, there are:
1. The amount of wear. This is by far the most important factor in the grading of circulated coins.
2. Marks and abrasions. Depending on the grade, a certain amount of marks and abrasions are expected with circulated coins. Severe or unusually serious marks "for the grade" can be a negative. The higher the circulated grade, the less severe marks can be before they would effect grade.
3. Luster. AU (Almost Uncirculated) coins should have some original luster. For lower grades color and originality have the same effect on grading as luster does for higher grades.
The "technical" grade of the coin is the grade of the coin based on the factors above without taking eye appeal into consideration. Eye appeal either adds or subtracts from the "technical" grade, or is neutral as a factor in determining the final grade. For toning, PCGS uses seven levels of eye appeal, from "Amazing" to "Ugly". For luster on mint state coins and depth of reflectivity on proofs, PCGS uses six levels of eye appeal, from "Amazing" to "Negative".
The following are the minimum standards for eye appeal on high grades: MS/PR68 â€" Must have positive eye appeal MS/PR67 â€" Must have above average eye appeal MS/PR66 â€" Cannot have below average eye appeal MS/PR65 â€" Cannot have negative eye appeal. AMS/PR65 coin can have below average luster or color (toning) if it is outstanding in every other way.
Plus Grades
High end coins for the grade, i.e. "plus" grades, cannot have negative or below average eye appeal for the grade I did a copy and paste from a PCGS site. This is so confusing to me ... Their (PSGS) language is so complex for me.  SsupperDdave, thank you for your help on this thread. I am here to learn as my first priority. |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
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Eye appeal either adds or subtracts from the "technical" grade, or is neutral as a factor in determining the final grade. It's things like these which explain why we use the term "market grading" derisively. I don't care what PCGS says. It's not how you grade coins. PCGS does not determine how coins are graded; only how they grade coins. Fortunately, others know better than them, or we'd be welded to slabs for grade. Edit: I have to add details, having looked at my post. It's conceivable that I might run into toning so ugly that I'd reduce the grade as a result, although I'd be wrong to do so. There is no toning which would cause me to raise the grade of a coin, although like some collectors there is toning which would cause me to pay more than normal grade value for a coin. The 1881 you posted is a good example of that.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7375 Posts |
IMO Some toning is beautiful and some is ugly. Recently have seen some very ugly quarters in PCGS holders with grades like MS66 and MS67. My first impression was, 'how can they even see the coin to give it a grade?' Obviously they can see it, but that's just how horrible I thought the coins looked.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1804 Posts |
SsupperDdave.......... Quote:
...only how they grade coins.... I am here to learn as MY first priority. Thanks again SsupperDdave  ...and to the whole CCF community. Additional ... This site is over the top with just plain good stuff. |
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Replies: 10 / Views: 2,831 |
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Posted 02/22/2014 2:05 pm
