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When Is A Coin Really A "Coin"

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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 02/27/2014  05:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Although I am forced accept a wide definition for a 'coin', I only collect coins that conform to a very narrow definition for what almost everybody would regard as a 'coin'.

If I was to propose very wide definition of what a 'coin' is, I would have to expect that there would be many and varied opinions as to what should be included and what should be excluded in that definition.
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 02/27/2014  10:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'm thinking that's too narrow. By that definition, every single commemorative coin ever issued by the United States except for the 1976 coins and some of the modern cents and nickels, is "not a coin", since they were not intended to circulate and for the most part have not and do not circulate.

That is true, and I do not consider them to be coins. They are denominated commemorative metal disks intended to be sold for fund raising purposes. I also do not consider proofs, ASE, AGE, gold buffalos etc to be coins either.

And if you do accept a lot of these things as coins then why not the piece from the OP. A typical coin today is a round cylinder with two faces and an edge typically a couple mm thick. But there have been thicker coins in the past. There was a copper Russian Ruble that would make that thing look tiny. Why reject it as a coin just because it is thicker and they used that space for additional images?
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
189053 Posts
 Posted 02/27/2014  1:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is a coin if someone can directly use it, as legal tender, to settle a debt. Commemorative coins, bullion eagles, and proofs are all legal tender; they can be spent. We may not like it (bullion eagles being coins rubs me a little), but they are all coins by definition.




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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2014  12:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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It is a coin if someone can directly use it, as legal tender, to settle a debt.

Half Cents were not legal tender until 1933. Were they coins or not before then?
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barryg's Avatar
United States
5858 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2014  4:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add barryg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Heh. I was wondering if this topic was going to be about the Fortuna Redux when I saw the title, and I was right!

I actually bought one of these last year and it is a joy to behold. Is it really a coin, though? I'd say as much as any item produced by any mint specifically for collectors with only a nominal face value. That would include all the "coins with crap on them" (hologram stickers, embedded glass jewels, etc.) as well as any modern bullion coins that have a face value far less than their actual worth, including the American Silver Eagles and American Gold Eagles. It would also include the 5-ounce ATB pucks as well as the 1-10 kilo dinner plates that the Perth Mint puts out as part of the lunar series.

Which is to say that it's probably not "really" a coin, but then again neither is much of what the various mints are churning out these days unless specifically meant to be circulated and spent at face value.

As I said, though, I really do like my Fortuna Redux. It's not just another coin with something stuck to it but was the result of a wholly unique minting process. Plus, it's just truly amazing to behold.
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 02/28/2014  5:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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Half cents were not legal tender until 1933. Were they coins or not before then?
I just knew if anyone could find a flaw in my argument, it would be you!
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n9jig's Avatar
United States
998 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2014  8:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add n9jig to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The intricacies of Legal Tender don't make or break the status of whether it is a coin or not. Legal tender really only applies to settling a debt, whether a tender is acceptable for payment of a purchase (as opposed to a debt) is up to the parties involved.

For these reasons, legal tender cannot be used to determine whether something is truly a coin or just a disk with a face value.

The Half Cents mentioned above are coins because they were produced by a competent authority for the purpose of being used as money in commerce. Whether they were legal tender or not is immaterial.
Edited by n9jig
02/28/2014 8:35 pm
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barryg's Avatar
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5858 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2014  10:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add barryg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree that legal tender status should not be determinative. I'm gonna stick with "meant to be used as currency at face value at the time it was minted," although I would probably include proof coins in that since they are essentially the same as the regular versions except with a special finish (and, of course, they do get spent at face value every now and then).
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