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Graffiti, Or Morgan's Initias?

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New Member

United States
8 Posts
 Posted 04/30/2014  3:09 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add vn3100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I'm new to the world of numismatics,so this may cause you to chuckle: could the writing on this 1879 O possibly be G. Morgan's initials? The only reason I'm tempted to think so is because the "touch of hand" is very light, but the gouges are very deep. It doesn't look like some kid just took a nail and scratched his initials onto the coin. The photos don't show this very well--they're sort of washed out, but under a microscope it doesn't seem as if much pressure was used to draw the letters.

There are also some scribbles between the spaces of the stars and just below the pointy part of the neck--again, these don't show up very well in the photos.

There are also some other unusual things on this coin that I'd like to get some opinions on. If you would take a look at the photos and tell me what you think, i'd be very grateful.

Graffiti,-Or-Morgan's-Initias?

Graffiti,-Or-Morgan's-Initias?

Graffiti,-Or-Morgan's-Initias?

Graffiti,-Or-Morgan's-Initias?

Graffiti,-Or-Morgan's-Initias?

Graffiti,-Or-Morgan's-Initias?

Graffiti,-Or-Morgan's-Initias?

Graffiti,-Or-Morgan's-Initias?
Edited by vn3100
04/30/2014 3:12 pm
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 Posted 04/30/2014  4:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chasingtailbar to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Graffiti.
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NathanASE's Avatar
United States
1511 Posts
 Posted 04/30/2014  4:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NathanASE to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd have to bet graffiti... No one aside of a signature expert could compare that with Morgan initials... but I think that's a reach and a half.. And really don't see him defacing one of "his coins"... If anything I think he'd have the means to have it done nicely. So again would be willing to bet alot on graffiti.
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jdmern's Avatar
United States
1949 Posts
 Posted 04/30/2014  5:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jdmern to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
grafitti
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United States
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 Posted 04/30/2014  5:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add vn3100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the input. As you point out,even if they were G.M.'s initials, there's no way of knowing for sure.

I was thinking that maybe they were fiddling around with the design of the coin, and G.M. said: "Okay boys, this is how I want it." and quickly put his initials on the coins so everyone would know which coin was which. The scratches between the stars sort of reinforced that line of thought.

Plus the fact that the handwriting is so delicate compared to the depth of the gouges--as if the metal was still soft. But I don't know the process of coin minting; it may be that the metal is never heated to the point of becoming pliable.

How about that funky "O", is that just a bag mark?
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 04/30/2014  5:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Morgan created the design himself, without outside influence. By the time it reached the stage where coins were actually minted, the design was final. Except for a couple little things, which make for an interesting story and a *lot* of Morgan varieties. But the point is, they weren't doing design approvals by looking at the coins themselves.

Silver is quite soft enough to make a fine gouge like these with any knife.
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United States
149 Posts
 Posted 04/30/2014  5:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add messydesk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Plain old graffiti. Feeble attempt to do an engraving. I would have to think that if Morgan were to engrave one of his coins, he'd do a better job.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16808 Posts
 Posted 04/30/2014  6:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The first letter (repeated twice) is not a "g", anyway; it's the letter "i", or maybe "j".

Quote:
But I don't know the process of coin minting; it may be that the metal is never heated to the point of becoming pliable.

Coin blanks aren't pre-heated these days. All coins struck for the last 1500 years or so have been cold-struck.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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zxcccxz's Avatar
Canada
5417 Posts
 Posted 04/30/2014  6:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zxcccxz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just Graffiti. Would've been nice to see Morgan's initials though.
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Chute72's Avatar
United States
1314 Posts
 Posted 05/01/2014  02:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chute72 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sometimes people will scratch an identifying mark on something of value to prevent or aid in the recovery of theft. Also done on firearms etc.
So far, it only proves that you have a sharp eye and an open mind.
Few people catch a record fish on their first try, but some stick with it and are destined to add their names to the record books.
I smell worms on your fingers.
Welcome aboard
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Chute72's Avatar
United States
1314 Posts
 Posted 05/01/2014  02:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chute72 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh, and your pictures are so much better than mine when I was getting started. I seriously considered drawing pictures and scanning them to share images.
Hope you'll stick around.
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United States
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 Posted 05/01/2014  10:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add vn3100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, everyone for your comments. Wouldn't it have been great if my long shot suspicion was correct?!

I'm really pleased with the responses you all gave--this forum is great!

I inherited a bunch of Morgan dollars, Peace dollars, and other assorted coins. I have never considered coin collecting until these coins came to me. If you don't mind, I'll probably be posting a lot of questions.

Thanks again.
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NathanASE's Avatar
United States
1511 Posts
 Posted 05/01/2014  10:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NathanASE to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No problem at all, we're happy to try to help... We love questions, and pics even more!! So post away! And I love Morgans more than anything.... So post this first just playing, post at your leisure.
Rest in Peace
dave700x's Avatar
United States
10625 Posts
 Posted 05/02/2014  07:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
We love looking at other member's Morgans.
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United States
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 Posted 05/08/2014  1:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tired Warror to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks to me like someone had nothing better to do one day and said I'll just scratch on this hear coin and one day someone else will say WTH...
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United States
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 Posted 05/08/2014  10:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add vn3100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree. Now that I've been dabbling in numismatics for a few weeks,it's much more obvious that the initials are just chicken scratch. But, as they say: if you don't ask questions, and you don't make mistakes, you're probably not learning.

And speaking of questions, would it be a mistake clean coins with an ultrasonic cleaner using only distilled water? The coins that I inherited have all been circulated. My Grandmother and Grandfather owned a soda shop in the 1930's - 1960's and would save the Morgan/Peace dollars they got from their customers; they have been sitting in various desk drawers, in various houses for roughly 50 to 80 years, and they're pretty grubby. I'd like to be able to remove the loose surface crud if it wouldn't ruin the value of the coins.
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