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ID Of Ayyubid Coin

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Rangnath's Avatar
United States
11 Posts
 Posted 08/03/2007  8:11 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Rangnath to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Could this be an Ayyubids of Syrian coin?
Someone once thought so and wrote down the following on the holder of the coin: Al Malek Al Nazir, 1056.
I'm on page five of Richard Plant's "Arabic Coins and How to read them." I need help.

Image: ID-Of-Ayyubid-Coin 4.jpg
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16873 Posts
 Posted 08/04/2007  12:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Plant's book is an excellent aid for identifying Islamic coinage, even if it does read a bit too much like my old school textbooks for comfort (after each chapter, he assigns homework!).

I've found two other books to be helpful: Stephen Album's "A Checklist of Islamic Coins" lists the known types and varieties for each ruler and dynasty, though it's got no pictures. The other is Album's reworking of the 1800's book, "Marsden's Numismata Orientalia Illustrata" - this has the pictures a non-Arabic speaker like me needs, with line drawings of many of the more commonly encountered types.

The best online resource is zeno.ru's Islamic pages. They've attempted to cross-index this with the Album numbers from the Checklist.

As for your coin, I'm stumped. If the number "1056" is a date, then it can't be "Ayyubid" - that dynasty didn't begin until 1169 AD. And I'm struggling to find a ruler named "Al Malik Al Nazir (or Nasir)" around that date. The style looks to me to be more Seljuq than Ayyubid, though Seljuq coppers aren't common, particularly early ones.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Rangnath's Avatar
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 Posted 08/04/2007  12:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Rangnath to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The resource information is a great help, thanks.
The writing on the coin doesn't seem kufic to me. One Seljuq coin I have does. The style on that coin of 1072 looks very different than that on this copper coin.
richie
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Rangnath's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 08/25/2007  7:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Rangnath to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
after hours of looking through the Islamic collection of the Fitzwilliam museum, I came up with the following information:
Kayka´us I (1210-19) (ruler)
no mint (mint)

Category coin
Name Fals (denomination)
Islamic (Series)
Rum (subseries)
Saljuqs of Rum (subsubseries)

Material/s copper

Dimensions image(height): 28 mm
image(width): 28 mm
die axis: 145 degrees
weight: 5.94 g
Date 1210 to 1219
Inscriptions/Marks 1. design
Position: obverse
Description: Legend in dotted circle.
2. design
Position: reverse
Description: Legend in dotted circle.
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Rangnath's Avatar
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 Posted 08/25/2007  8:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Rangnath to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
this is the image from the Fitzwilliam collection:

Image: ID-Of-Ayyubid-Coin 2335.jpg
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Rangnath's Avatar
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 Posted 08/25/2007  8:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Rangnath to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm sorry, I forgot to say that I had taken my coin to be read by a friend of mine from Syria. He looked at it and started shaking his head. He concluded that he could not read most of the coin, specially the reverse, because, he thought, the person that did the calligraphy was not a native Arabic speaker. Even the word "Sultan" on the obverse, is spelled incorrectly. There were too many "mistakes" and careless placements of dots. If I am correct that the coin is from the Seljuqs of Rum, then my friend was correct. Any opinions?
richie
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16873 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2007  02:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like a match to me, near as I can tell.

It's not so much knowledge of the alphabet and/or language that causes technically incorrect spelling - the die-cutters would have had as good a working knowledge of the script as any Muslim. Rather, it's the combination if the evolution of the language itself, the technical skill of the engraver and the limitation of trying to put a long, verbose, grandiose title on such a small object as a coin. They were also pressed for time, too - the Sultan need his coins, and needed them NOW. Technical accuracy was sacrificed and only the most important details of the words were included, with the general population expected to be able to "fill in the blanks" which the die-cutter skipped.

You can see a similar effect on mediaeval European coins, where the same factors make legends in the Western alphabet hard to read with modern Western eyes. Dies were done in a rush, so letters were merged, skipped or mangled.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Rangnath's Avatar
United States
11 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2007  10:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Rangnath to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Sap. What you say seems right to me. I've heard of mint masters losing their heads over metal content; why not over time delays? But, when Arabic is used in the 13th century for phonetic purposes to render Turkish, I'd guess that creates its own problems. The Kalima is one thing, but the names of the Seljuq Sultan is another. However, that's just me guessing.
Personally, I think this is one lovely coin!
richie
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