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Numismatic Values: Is It Time For A Standard?

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cdnmace's Avatar
United States
134 Posts
 Posted 06/17/2014  5:29 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add cdnmace to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I hope this can encourage some proactive dialog; and I'm certain I would not be the first to open this subject matter with my quasi-controversial question/statement.

About a year ago an American coin dealer said to me, "There is no rhyme or 'reason' to Canadian coin guides. They're completely pointless. A waste of money and time."

At first, the Canadian-now-in-America transplant in me was slightly offended. But after some time, and the deep rooted desire to 'prove him wrong', I began to look for ways to do so (prove him wrong).

Conclusion: (in my humble opinion), he's right. There is no 'rhyme or reason' to the various numismatic published/online pricing guides to Canadian coins.

It appears that we don't even have a 'pretty close'. A RedBook if you will? We haven't had an author worth his/her salt since the likes of Zoell (or one to refute). Or one in the pricing realm to Zoell's variety. Heck, we can't even generally agree on varieties at times. We have got nothing but a vast amount of 'maybe' in our numismatic realm of Canadiana.

Now, I am the BIGGEST advocate of Canadian coin collecting. I feel that our coinage has a much greater history than most of the 'modern' world (colonial era on). There is a great story to tell for each coin, series, denomination. But taking into account the (my phrase) dreaded Charleton which I personally believe serves no purpose to collectors; to the CCD newsletter; to ebay, Heritage, TeleTrade Auctions et al., websites (private and public); there are SO many discrepancies that the most seasoned collector(s) are left to only shake their heads.

In Canadian collecting, what is 'too much'? What is a 'great purchase'? To cite the American RedBook again, at least that is a 'pretty close', as it were. Our's, so all over the board it often times defies logic.

So here is/are my question(s):

-Where do you see the potential for standardized pricing ever becoming a reality?
-Do you even see any need for it?
-Is/are there any guides you specifically rely on? How accurate do you feel they are?
-Other thoughts/views?

Again, I hope this begins some proactive dialog. I would like to eventually write a piece, on my own time (I'm not a professional), about this subject and would love to hear other's opinions. I hoping to hear all opinions: Pro, con, and otherwise.

Cheers.



Edited by cdnmace
06/17/2014 5:44 pm
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amida17's Avatar
United States
4897 Posts
 Posted 06/17/2014  5:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amida17 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Where do you see the potential for standardized pricing ever becoming a reality?



It is there. A coin is worth what someone will pay for it. Use completed auction prices...Heritage, ebay et al.

Price guides are not at all reliable most are dated before they are printed. They, imo, are "hopeful" at best in regard to value....
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Canada
9864 Posts
 Posted 06/17/2014  5:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The standard for Canadian pricing is Canadian Coin News Trends, as "pretty close" as Red Book is for US coins.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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kuh_85's Avatar
Canada
2366 Posts
 Posted 06/17/2014  7:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kuh_85 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The nice thing about standards is there are so many to choose from!

I use a formula based on the latest Charlton, coinandcanada.com, recently sold ebay listings and (if applicable) previous prices we have paid. I haven't found any guide that is consistently 'accurate' across all denominations, grades and years to use without crosschecking against other sources. I find Trends has had too long a time lag adjusting to price drops over the last few years to be useful so don't factor it in regularly anymore.

I tend to think of the coin market as similar in various respects to the commodity market (ie low grade silver from the 60's), stock market (more desirable coins such as the higher grades) and fine art market (very rare coins that you may only see come up for sale once every ten years). Check 10 different stock analysts and you'll get 10 different prices for where a stock 'should' be and all of them will be wrong or out-dated. Just speculating here but a) maybe the Canadian coin market is more volatile than the US market because it is so much smaller?; and b) maybe there has been historically a much more established price base in the US such that buyers and sellers now expect the RedBook prices to be accurate and so they are - like a self-fulfilling prophecy?
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Pacificoin's Avatar
Canada
5394 Posts
 Posted 06/17/2014  10:18 pm  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Canadian coin market is far too thinly traded to have a standard accurate pricing guide. As DBM said "trends" is about as good as it will ever get and it is not the best. The best way to get a decent grip on the Canadian coin market is to search ebay completed and recent auction results from the major auction firms. We have found that the market for super high end Canadian Rarities is virtually non existent due to the complete lack of " players " at that end of it . Whereas a coin like a 1923 cent or a 1925 nickel in say an accurately graded VG-8 is fairly close in price from dealer to dealer.
Another factor that skews the Canadian coin Market is TAXATION. The rates vary wildly from province to province.
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cdnmace's Avatar
United States
134 Posts
 Posted 06/18/2014  1:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cdnmace to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Beyond fantastic feedback so far! Thanks to all who've taken the time to weigh in thus far. Some eye-opening stuff too. Hopefully more will eventually take part in the discussion.

I will frequently check back on this one, for sure, and take note of all opinions and references.

Cheers.
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