You Are Your Own Keeper

Surely there is a case for fraud. YOu cannot commit fraud and turn around and say that it was the buyers fault, it is a matter of whether the dealer attempted to get money out of someone on false pretenses.

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/uscfraud.html

"(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, in any
matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or
judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and
willfully--
(1) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or
device a material fact;
(2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent
statement or representation; or
(3) makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same
to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement
or entry;"


Sounds like if you sell something which you know to be something other than what you advertise, then you are liable.

Auction house types are in general people that auction off all types of items. Many have little knowledge of many of the items and could care less. It is not the auction house or person doing the auction's responsibility to authenticate every item. They are usually as is items in various lots of all types of merchandise so it would highly unlikely an auctioneer would be an expert on coins. It is there jobs to get rid of the items as best they can and as fast as they can. From my experience some auctions are spiked with ringers. People in the place that will bid only to raise the prices and if they accidently win, it just goes up for sale at the next auction. In marketing there are so many things being done to fool the general public and many are borderline scams but are still in the bouderies of legality. Ever see a store going out of buisness for several years. True, someday they will be out of buisness, but for now all is just buisness.

Since I've worked in a legit auction house, I can tell you that real auction companies are legally and ethically bound by a code of conduct. It's up to the bidder to enforce the code, but it exists to protect all parties. In the case of the Peace dollar, the buyer is not bound to purchase it if he brings up the problem at the time of the auction. The auctioneer at his discretion can either rebid or remove the item from the auction. Any auctioneer who lists a 1923 as a 1928 and then says "All sales final," wouldn't last too long in the states where I've resided.

I guess the bottom line here is that I should have stood up and said something. I had held it in hand and looked at it but did not have my glasses on or study it in detail as I was not interested in purchasing it. So when it sold, I did not want to look like a complete fool by saying something and finding out it really was a 1928. Wrong.
Jim

If the man bid on the coin based on the material that the auction house handed out and it was Identified as a 1928 then that is what the man bought ,if it is anything else then He did not get what He bid on or paid for .

Responsibility for accuracy lay with the producers of such documents not the person reading them .

If the auctioneer even once called the coin a 1928 while in the course of auctioning it ,then that also represents a contract upon the sale ,, there can be no as is for an Item that is auctioned as one thing and turns into another when received .

Metalman

I would agree that theauction house would be responsible IF the buyer was not present at the sale and had no opportunity to examine the lots. For in person sales you will find that all or almost all terms of sale warn that BIDDERS ARE TO EXAMINE THE LOTS BEFORE THE SALE, the house is not responsible for such errors, that corrections made during the sale take precidence over the printed listing, that lots are sold as is, and that by bidding the bidder agrees to all of those terms.

So if someone bids in person and wins a lot he is assumed to have examined the lot and is basing his bid on his examination NOT WHAT IS IN THE PRINTED CATALOG. If he didn't bother to examine the lot then it is his problem. Even if the catalog says 1928 for a 23, and if the auctioneer says 1928, the seller is still assumed to be bidding based on his examination and he should know it is a 23. So he is bidding $330 for a 1923 and he is assumed to be aware of what he is doing.

I see no fraud unless you can show a pattern in the catalog that a great many of the rarities in the catalog are commons misidentified as rarities. If it is just the occasional piece then you don't have a case for a fraud claim. UNLESS it can be clearly shown to have been brought to the auction houses attention during the lot viewing and a correction is NOT announced and it is still sold as a 1928 then you would have a case that they are KNOWINGLY misrepresenting the coin.

I've got to go along with Conder101 on this.
However, there is another aspect to consider. That is the area you are attenting for the auction. You can protest at some places and even make a stink about a rip off in some places. In other places that is not adviable.
An example of that was a freind of mine was bidding on an item at an auction around here in the Chicago area. He won but was shown something different than what he bid on. He protested and was shown out but two rather large gentlemen. They advised him to never come back or ......... Now around here what is right and what is not may not matter if your in the wrong place.

Great thread, I thoroughly enjoyed reading it.
Thanks guys...and gals.