Shill Bidding Example?

Jim1953 wrote:
"In reality, vette wants to put a reserve on the coin, but knows that reserves tend to push bidders away. This is just another way of protecting an investment. I really have very little problem with this. The coin is either worth another bid, or it is not. It would seem that the only people with hurt feelings were those who were trying to steal (get a great deal) on something."

There are ethical and unethical ways of "protecting an investment." Putting a reserve on an item up for auction is ethical. Lacing the auction with shill bids is unethical. The item is listed as no reserve, when actually the seller has no intention of letting the auction run its natural course.

There are two problematic areas with shill bidding, ethics and the law.

It's a slippery slope to allow "reasonable" shill bidding in lieu of reasonable reserves.

I hope someone will come along and share their knowledge as to what the actual burden of proof would be. I also wonder, since the kind of evidence we would need for proof would be unavailable to us without subpoena power, would it suffice to say, hypothetically: "that from the available evidence I have come to the conclusion vette1986 is likely engaging in shill bidding and possible criminal activity vis a vis their ebay auction listings. In the absence of proof otherwise I have decided that the pattern of suspicious bidding I have noticed in vette1986's listings concerns me to the point that I will not bid on nor do I recommend bidding on vette1986's listings until such time as I can be assured with evidence provided through ebay or a relevant legal authority that my suspicions have been examined and determined to be invalid"?

FYI I did report this to ebay, filled out the complaint, listed 10 auctions I thought were "suspicious".

As for reserves, I bid on them. Last week I bid on a 1910(maybe a 1911) matte proof Lincoln that had one. I was the high bidder at $330 and still did not win. I emailed the seller and asked what the reserve was and he was nice enough to reply $399. I am thinking it over, I might ask him to do a buy it now for $399 or relist it for me. 9 times out of 10 I will ask the seller what the reserve is on a auction while it is open, 9 times out of 10 they will tell me what it is. I guess the only way to not use a reserve would be to use a "buy it now", but then you might be leaving something on the table and miss a buying frenzy.

the main reason that sellers do not put a reserve on their coins and other items is because it costs more for insertion fee's they have to pay ebay

<<the main reason that sellers do not put a reserve on their coins and other items is because it costs more for insertion fee's they have to pay eBay>>

Also lowers the possibility of bids. I usually avoid reserve auctions like the bubonic plague. I have found through my experience that opening an auction at $1, and letting the market determine value more often than not pleases me beyond my expectations of a reserve.

I know we're not in a court room. If you took anything I posted seriously, you'd realize I'm trying to keep YOU out of one. If the police knock on my door with a subpoena for your information, guess what, they're getting it. I'm not going to jail for your silliness.

If you don't think it's happened, I can put you in contact with several people that have spent thousands in lawyer fees for posting more vague things than you have.

Heck, send Stujoe, a member here, an email and ask him if you think I'm blowing smoke. He'll tell you.