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 Replies: 8 / Views: 2,363 |
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Valued Member
Canada
147 Posts |
Let's play a game. I'm going to provide photos of two different notes that have been graded. I would like everyone's opinion on not just the grade of each note, but also your justification. I am not looking to start a BCS bashing party. Of course, I have my bias and disagree greatly with what was given. However, I am interested in discussing the larger subject of exactly HOW we should be determining a grade of a note (and, by extension, a coin). First, let me quote excerpts of BCS' grading policy to understand from where this discussion comes. In regards to circulated notes: "When evidence of wear is present on a note, the inherent imperfections taken into account when grading an uncirculated note become trivial. More important are the number of creases and folds (predominantly in the VF and above ranges) and the severity of the creases (a strong consideration in the grades of F and lower). Also, consideration must be made towards the amount of soiling on the note. Soiling of a note is often correlated with the condition of the paper, putting the prospective grader in the right frame of mind. Furthermore, since eye appeal of the note is a great contributor to the enjoyment of the hobby, the amount of soiling of a note should be taken into account." "Unusual wear to the note will not effect the grade designation of the note, but will be mentioned in the description. No net grade will be given." Here is their list of descriptions, broken down by grade: http://www.banknotecertification.co...edgrades.php    My apologies for the rough photos, they were taken in haste. Edited by Universalcoins
09/04/2014 3:45 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1461 Posts |
I'm not sure what we are after here and without knowing the story, I would obviously grade the bottom note without tape significantly higher. As an example, and from my experience with BCS, is that they do NET grade contrary to the statement above. I sent a run of 19 x 1954 dollar replacement notes in series and all came back 63/64 with the exception of one which had a barely visible 2 x 2 mm stain on reverse and no other flaws. This note was NET graded a 58 with a comment "stain".
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
4944 Posts |
English: VG-8. There are no rips, or holes that I can see, but the missing piece along the top margin may have brought it down to a G-6. Comments: Tape
French: F-12 (See Edit*). This note is still relatively clean looking overall, with no rips or holes, and the design is still present in the heavy creases. *Edit: Looking at this note again, I'm thinking it might go VG-10, because of the soiling on the back.
The main difference (besides the tape) between these two notes is the severity of the folds. The English note has lost the majority of the design in the creases, while the design on the French note still remains.
It's best for notes in this condition to be seen in hand to make an accurate guess at the grade. The firmness of the note (Like BCS mentions in the link) starts to play an important role.
Edited by Canadian-Banknotes
09/04/2014 11:03 pm
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Valued Member
 Canada
147 Posts |
TheCoinHunter: I'm trying to get an idea of what the collecting publics' grading consensus is by trying to remove as little bias as possible. I want to know what people say without being influenced by any details from the grading company at all -- in support or disagreement of the truth.
I'm most interested in things like whether eye appeal make a major difference in establishing a grade because the eye appeal between the two notes are miles apart.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1461 Posts |
We've had similar discussions about coins here. I just did a deal on a very expensive Canadian MS66 dollar, it was a stunning coin but sold at a discount because of a dark tone spot on the nose of the bust. There are many coins out there with matching technical grades yet miles apart on eye appeal, due to toning, spots, etc...Same would apply to notes. I think to answer your question, the grading companies generally try to grade on mostly technical merritt and some eye appeal(although what is considered technical might differ between TPGs) and the eye appeal is what actually sells the coin. I much rather see technical grades and leave eye appeal to the buyer. Last but not least, I would consider tape on a bill damage comparable to extensive cleaning on a coin so in my opinion it goes beyond eye appeal.
Edited by TheCoinHunter
09/04/2014 5:30 pm
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Valued Member
Canada
147 Posts |
I can agree with that. Eye appeal is definitely subjective and not an attribute one can grade on technicality.
Canadian-Banknotes: You're absolutely right that the tactile feel of a note is critical in judging a note -- and its the one thing that cannot be determined with either of these notes at this point. I've never seen either note raw so I have to put all of my faith in BCS that it is accurate. However, the technical merit is meaningless when it comes down to a comparison between these two notes. The English note was graded Fine 12 while the French note came back Very Good 10. No one can question which item is more desirable, which one would sell first. However, if all other things about the note being equal, the worse condition note would technically price better than the better. I very well understand the idea of buying the note/coin and not the holder. If this is what we can expect to get from a professional grader, what is the point?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1461 Posts |
What were the comments on the holders?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
4944 Posts |
I'm quite surprised at the grade on the English note. It may still be a very firm note, if you were to cut it out of the holder, but the severity of the creases (In my opinion) puts this note no higher then a VG.
Did you pay Fine money for the note, or were you able to buy it at a discount?
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Valued Member
Canada
147 Posts |
Here are the comments (also note: the French note's Charlton designation is wrong) English Note:  French Note:  Canadian-Banknotes: Actually the English note isn't mine. A customer of mine brought it in because he wanted to know what the deal was on the grade given, as he thought it was off. It just so happened that I had recently gotten the French $25 graded and wanted to do a side by side comparison. Edited by Universalcoins
09/08/2014 11:58 am
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Replies: 8 / Views: 2,363 |
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Posted 09/04/2014 4:54 pm
