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 Replies: 11 / Views: 2,050 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
602 Posts |
Hello CCF, I just bought these from ebay for $3 total (.75c each). According to seller description, He says that each silver coin is 14-16mm and that the coins are "original Islamic silver coins" He also lists some possible clues under which the coins were made, such as "Ottoman Empire/Mahmud/Selim/Mustafa/Abdulham". If possible, can someone ID: Region? Leader under which coins were made? Translation of Arabic on coins? Date (exact or range)? ETC? I've attached pictures; can somebody help me out?         Thanks in advance  |
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2895 Posts |
All Turkey 1 para #1 AH1187=1773AD date =AH+RY regnal year (RY) begins with 1 billon (not silver)Constantinopel mint (arabic reads from right to left) Ruler : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Hamid_Irotation : see picture   Edited by Petrus
10/18/2014 3:20 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2895 Posts |
Edited by Petrus
10/18/2014 3:20 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
602 Posts |
Well aren't you a bundle of help! Thanks  Do you mind doing the other two for me? Oh, sorry for the "inverted" photos, I didn't know any better. |
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2895 Posts |
Coin #3 Turkey 1 para similar to coin #1 date not readable, I think AH1187 date =AH+RY regnal year (RY) = 7 AH1187+7=AH1194=1780AD billon (not silver)Constantinopel mint (arabic reads from right to left) Ruler : see coin #1 rotation : see picture Toughra not readable  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
602 Posts |
The 4th coin in hand says what resembles "II^V" as the date, in case you can't see from the photo.
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2895 Posts |
Edited by Petrus
10/18/2014 3:42 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
602 Posts |
Why does it say on the coin the year AH1187 (1773AD) when Abdülhamid I didn't start reigning until Jan 1774?
I get that you need to add the two, but why is the date a bit off?
EDIT: I ask because I want to make sure that I date these right on my 2x2's
Edited by YoshiRules
10/18/2014 4:27 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2895 Posts |
Good question!
The Hejira era starts in 622AD, when Mohammed fled from Mecca.
The Muslim year is based on the lunar cycle and is 11 days shorter than our solar cycle.
The muslim year is 2.98% shorter than the christian year.
In the Krause catalog this is the data on this ruler : Abdul Hamid I, AH1187-1203/1774-89AD
In the same catalog is a conversion chart AH to AD.
There you can read that 1187 starts march 25, 1773
Calculation:
(AH * (100-2.98)/100 + 622) = AD
(1187 * (100-2,98)/100) + 622 = 1773,6274
It all comes on conversion errors.
For me the few months difference are not that important as we speak of a couple of hundred years ago.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
602 Posts |
Indeed. Anyways, I think you are incorrect about something. I think that some of these DO contain silver. http://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces61811.htmlAccording to numista, the Abdülḥamīd I coins DO contain silver (46.5%) while the single Muṣṭafā III coin is billon. |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
852 Posts |
All 4 coins contain silver, just not in a high level. Billon coins are really just debased silver coins. Akhe are very common (especially with holes) and can be purchased in bulk from some sellers. Then the fun begins trying to work out dates and mints. If you want to pursue them then get yourself a copy of Uslu (1687-1839) as it is a good mid priced book on Ottoman coins. I got mine off ebay last year for under $100. |
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Moderator
 Australia
16849 Posts |
Quote:
Anyways, I think you are incorrect about something. I think that some of these DO contain silver. Um, billon is silver. Very debased silver, but still "silver" from a scientific point of view. Quote:
Why does it say on the coin the year AH1187 (1773AD) when Abdülhamid I didn't start reigning until Jan 1774?
I get that you need to add the two, but why is the date a bit off? The date isn't actually off. The problem is that Islamic calendar dates to not convert easily or evenly to AD dates, primarily because the Islamic year is only 354 days long. So sometimes, the years are more or less in sync, at other times they aren't. Abdul Hamid I became sultan on 21st January AD 1774. The Islamic year 1187 began on 25rd March AD 1773 and ended on 13th March AD 1774 - so the Islamic year was still 1187 when he assumed power. The remaining two months of 1187 were "year 1" of this ruler; 1188 was Year 2, and so forth. So the derivation of the actual AD year of issue of Ottoman coins requires quite a bit more maths than simple addition; you always need to subtract 1, because the first year of reign was Year 1, not Year 0. In the example of your first coin: the year of issue = 1187 + 7 - 1 = 1193. This year more or less correlates to AD 1779. I always use a date converter website like this one, rather than the conversion tables in the coin catalogues or the first-principles calculation. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Replies: 11 / Views: 2,050 |
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Posted 10/18/2014 3:03 pm
