Is This Normal For $1 Devil's Face?

Fellow Collectors,

We recently had some issues back and forth about this discolored banknote which is blue on one side.
Based on certain unsupported statements made by a member here, suggesting he used to experiment with the "Javex-Jobs" , I decided to experiment a bit with Javex and Ammonia.
And fellows, here are the results and pictures of the results. (sorry, there is a spello in the picture. Am just not perfect)
Please, YOU be the judge now, and until I hear back from the original printer otherwise, these notes are a authentic printers error in my opinion.
Please do your own experiments, perhaps with other chemicals if you wish.
Reason for the experiments is to find out if chemicals like bleach or ammonia will actually discolor a $1 1954 Canadian Banknote to make it look blue.

Experiment on Nov. 02 -2014

1 used a Q-tip to apply some bleach to a corner.
Applied Javex in a circular motion , rotating, for about 1 minute
Result: there was 100% NO change and NO ink rubbed off in any way

2 poured Javex into a glass.
Marked the bill with a red - orange colored ink pen.
Attached the same bill so that it was approximately hanging 1 Inch into the bleach.
see small black marks on images.
Result: after 1 hour of being in the bleach, 100% NO change

3 inserted bill again and checked after 12 hours
Result: the red- orange ink pen markings became more light orange colored.
It appears that the color red used for the Serial number prefix started to be affected by
dissolving its ink.
The Banknote ink-color green was 100% not affected! It showed 100% NO changes.

HOWEVER, after the banknote was dry, the 1 " section which was inserted into the bleach had become a bit brittle and was very easy to tear. When applying slight pressure to tear, it tore very easy, displaying the properties similar to a slightly char-burned paper.
Trying to tear a section which had not been in bleach was considerably harder.
The note retained (even still present today) a "bleachy" smell when held close to the nose.
As of today, one brittle section of the note has actually broken off now, just from handling.

Experiment Nov. 03-2014 using Acetone

Used a Q-tip to apply acetone in a rotating - - "rubbing motion to a corner of the note. See images.
Result: after about a 20 second rub some light green ink was visible on the Q-tip.
However, it did not become more with more rubbing or more Acetone.
After it dried, a bit of missing color green was evident on the note.

Result: There is 100% NO change of the color. BUT there is evidence of missing color green.
There is no acetone odor remaining on the experimental section
There is no change in the paper resistance to tears.

Experiment Nov 05-2014

Used a Q-tip and Ammonia.
Applied ammonia again in a rotating circular motion for 20 seconds and then for a minute.
And then left a few drops on it until evaporated.
Result: There is 100% NO change in color, paper properties or appearance!
There is NO ammonia odor remaining.

Experiment 05-Nov 2014

Applied acetone to areas treated with bleach with Q-tip rotating motion for about 15 seconds
Result: light green ink transferred to q-tip
100% NO discoloration of the Banknote

Now, please see the pictures

Still don't have the invoice from the certification company ? Who did you use ? BCS? PMG?... At AG............Beauty !

Pacifc I ask you not to try and side track with TPG etc...
Lets not look for dumb arguments and excuses. Lets just please deal with facts here.
I did what you said YOU actually experimented with and claimed you had "blue" results. Please read your own posts.
I wanted to see if it does turn blue and IT DID NOT!!
Grading or not grading is not the issue right now, and never was. you brought this into the issue as an excuse.
So far you have not offered a plausible explanation for the blue bills, except to say you did experiment and you did not want to waste another banknote. well, I did not mind to get one and waste it, because I sincerely want to find out.
you referenced the Charlton Book where it indicates certain chemicals could have that effect.(BTW, it is in every book)
I am willing to bet that the editor has never experimented with any of the substances he mentions and that what he wrote is all hearsay!
He has for the last 8 days chosen NOT to return my call despite leaving messages!
at this point, it looks like that beer in Victoria is going to taste mighty good. It will happen some day when this is concluded and you better have a fat wallet as I have great beer taste.
and please, stop asking for a TPG invoice, because you already would have lost the bet. you wrote: "if it gets certified", and that it would as it is a authentic note.
anyway, lets stop the mean nothing arguments and lets make an effort to find out why the heck these are blue!
I made a start, so lets pull on the same strings, right?

Time to spend them

Pacific,

I am sure you are a very respectable nice person with kids, Wife, business, maybe a dog or cat. Simply all around just a normal fellow.
So, this and the previous posts, I sincerely wish you to understand, is NOTHING personal. (we will have that beer one day when I am in Victoria).

However, often a little objectivity and support will get a person a lot further then a constant effort trying to undermine and divert from the actual subject.
Your "antics" trying to divert from this subject seem to be endless.
Is it perhaps you got yourself into a corner?
Just say so if that is the case.
We all understand that nobody is perfect and by admitting, you come out and smelling like a rose.

Please, have something to say which makes sense and concerns the actual subject, the blue note.
It might be better to simply say: Ok, lets see where it leads to, HOW can I realistically and practically help and contribute, instead of "bucking" the actual issue?
Would that not be in the interest of present and future owners of these blue $1 banknotes?
Did you ever have one?
Or, did you actually ever see one and hold one in your hands? I doubt it.
Otherwise you would probably be of a different mind set and opinion about it.

Perhaps you might want to consider a NEW topic on what is and is not illegal about banknotes.
Perhaps you wish to find, and read up on that subject. it is all on-line on the Gov. web site!
Perhaps you might want to read all your previous posts about YOUR "Javex" experiments before you use the word "illegal" in conjunction with Banknotes.
The banknote I used for my experiments is perfectly fine and ANY bank will accept it as such! It is not destroyed or defaced and it has NOT been altered in the eyes of the law.
Or, do you think I printed on it? Do you think I was trying to make that $1 into a $5?
Well, if you think that, I guess you abandoned the idea when YOU experimented because you found out it did not work!

Okay okay.. simmer down here folks...

First off...




This hurts my feelings.. I thought the THREE of us were going to sit down in Winnipeg...

I'm buying the first round... who's in!?!?


Second... I don't know how the notes have been doctored... I have never maid any claim to say I did either... but I have been told that if the note isn't UNC... the assumption is that the note has in some way been doctored and the wear and tear is to mask or part of the result of the doctoring... That's why I have said I would only consider a note like this IF it were in UNC condition.

You're experiments proved that javex with a q-tip doesn't work... as well as the other solvents you used such as acetone. I'm not going to suggest I know HOW it was done.. and you might be very right that a previous run of $5 notes then they switched to $1 notes and some blue was still left in the ink wells is plausible and probably did happen.

I have seen a note that did NOT have any serial numbers on it... it did have a faint chemical smell and it wasn't of mothballs.. I have also seen a discoloured $1 note.. and I can't remember if I ever smelled it... but it was in VG-F condition..

I haven't put much if any effort in researching these "blue" notes... but I would have a few questions...

1) Does the blue on the note match the $5 blue ink?
2) Are there any UNC examples? If so what prefixes?
3) Why are most notes I have seen like this (there has been a few I have seen pics of from the net)in pretty worn condition at best F grade? I know that if most people came across a GREEN $100 note they would hold onto it b/c it was something different... same here with a $1...
4) Did this type of error happen to any other denominations... if there was a problem with the printers or personel... did it only happen on the $1 notes? (I sometimes think that doctor will probably "practice" on a low denomination first...)

5) Have you posted this note anywhere else? I am a collector.. although I'm still pretty much a novice ... I love these forums because I CAN learn so much... I think that's one of the reasons you're here 47P7... you like to ask questions that make us think...it's GREAT! May I recommend that you post this on the cdnpapermoney.com web site... there are some REALLY knowledgeable people there that KNOW their notes... they may be able to explain if/how or why "blue" $1 notes came into existance...

We already know this note wont be graded.... and I suspect the main reason why is the TPG'ers don't want to touch this one.. b/c they don't want to make the mistake of calling a note an error if it really has been doctored.

We also know a few ways how doctoring the note WONT work...

I still feel that I have more questions than answers.... 47P7... I thank you for this dialog.. and sorry if my humor hasn't been well received... I have parental issues and difficulties when I percieve people arguing..

I look forward to any more discoveries that can come out of this.. and hope to see your post on the other forum...perhaps there we can shed a bit more light on this issue.

Now if you will excuse me... I've read this whole thread just under a half dozen times .. and I'm REALLY craving a few beers... it's 5 o'clock somewhere...I'm out!