First Ever Paired Off-Center Die Clash Found?

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Author	Replies: 8 / Views: 1,995
Drsandman2 Pillar of the Community United States 1374 Posts	Posted 10/24/2014 7:25 pm Below is an IHC that I believe to exhibit off-center or misaligned die clashes on both sides of the coin. It is my understanding that only 6 off-center die clashes have been confirmed (Flynn), but none of them are paired with the die that created the clash. These 6 finds have created a numismatic mystery as to how off-center clashes could have occurred. My hunch for those 6 coins is that the clashes occurred during the die making process, perhaps when the dies were being annealed in batches or while being transported in an annealed state. I think it is possible the dies were stacked on top one another, face-to-face, perhaps to prevent damage while moving from the annealing oven room to the press or hubbing station. However, I believe that the clashes on this coin are due to a broken press. Nevertheless, this should be the first example of a matched die pair exhibiting off-center clashing. Initially, I thought there were only two clashes, which are easy to see - one pretty close to center, and the other well off-center with Liberty's chin almost touching the wreath. However, there is a third faint clash as wide as the first two, and even more off-center. The off-center clash I observed is actually the middle of the three. Liberty's chins are pointed out on the west side of the reverse. On the east side of the reverse, you can see clashed feathers that shift in the same direction. In fact, there are again three distinct steps... albeit not quite as wide as Liberty's chin on the west side. I think this is because the dies were actually off-center and slightly rotated and perhaps tilted between clashes. Obviously, one or both of the dies must have been very loose. I'd also like to point out the rim. I think that rim Cud developed when the off-center clashing occurred. The rim anomaly occurs in the same direction and to the same degree as the clashing observed in the fields of the coin. The 'damage' in the date is actually a strike-through, and is very most likely from the die or press itself. I began posting about this coin in the classics variety forum, but it was in a general thread about off-center clashes. If this is indeed what I believe it to be, it most certainly deserves its own thread. EDIT: more pics to come... * Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. * Edited by Drsandman2 10/24/2014 8:55 pm Report this Post to the Staff

0xDA71D Pillar of the Community United States 1215 Posts	Posted 10/24/2014 8:48 pm Oh so the die clashing process is off center not the coin itself right? Report this Post to the Staff
Normic67 Pillar of the Community 798 Posts	Posted 10/24/2014 10:03 pm I got this a week ago and the first pic in your thread reminds me of mine. http://asyn.net/img/asynpm/1410/41000297.jpg Report this Post to the Staff
SsuperDdave Moderator United States 23522 Posts	Posted 10/24/2014 10:57 pm Quote: Oh so the die clashing process is off center not the coin itself right? Yeah, and this is where the fun begins. Have a look at Drsandman2's bottom two images, the IHC overlays. The bottom-most one is what things should normally be, the obverse superimposed over the reverse perfectly. Sometimes a clash (or some other event) is hard enough to cause the hammer die (the upper one) to become loose and rotate in its' fitting. That's how rotated dies happen, and sometimes these rotated dies clash themselves. There are coins with multiple rotated clashes - when you consider the best presses were striking at a rate of 2.5 coins per second, you can see how a multiple-clashed coin could happen so fast the operator wouldn't have time to stop the press. So, you can use that bottom template to imagine how a clash might rotate. Pay attention to the jawline and chin, because that's where the proof lies most clearly. On the full face images (a little less clearly in the details) you can see where the jawline and neck were clashed onto the reverse die in multiple locations. And when you imagine rotating the obverse counterclockwise on the reverse, you can see a point where those neck lines will be nice and vertical over the O in ONE, just as on the coin. But where should the necklines be, when you rotate the obverse? Um, not where they show on the coin. And that's the reason for the first template, where you'll see illustrated what sort of die offset it would take to create a clash like we can see. The storage/annealing process was an interesting tangent which deserved exploration, but it's not up to explaining the clashing we see here. The two dies had to have come together while not in their designed alignment. Whatever caused that must have made a spectacular noise. The only detail that bothers me here is the offset is in a direction where the collar would tend to protect the anvil die. Had the clashing been on the "bottom" of the templates/coins, it'd be easier to imagine. This way, though, we also have to consider collar involvement. Report this Post to the Staff
Drsandman2 Pillar of the Community United States 1374 Posts	Posted 10/25/2014 12:39 am Okay, so I really appreciate everyone taking a look at this. I made some new overlays of the actual coin itself. If you look at the 5th photo from the top in the first post - the top most arrow is actually pointing at the clash created by the number 1 on the obverse. This clashed 1 is from what I'm calling the off-centered clash. This can be deduced by looking at the space between the bust and the 1 on the obverse. The clash from the 1 is much too far from the bust of the on-centered clash. Edited by Drsandman2 10/25/2014 01:22 am Report this Post to the Staff
DVCollector Bedrock of the Community United States 10045 Posts	Posted 10/25/2014 01:07 am That's an interesting coin--the overlays help me visualize what's happening, although I don't have clashes all figured out. Report this Post to the Staff
Drsandman2 Pillar of the Community United States 1374 Posts	Posted 10/25/2014 01:20 am Some more photos. BTW - too bad the coin has spots, but it does have original surfaces. I realized while pondering that proof in the pudding would be to see off-center clashing in the center of the coin. It appears to be that there is. The N in ONE is showing a strong clash with Liberty's ear to the North. However, it is also showing a more subtle clash on the southeastern serif of the 1. Notice that the distance between these two raised areas appears to be the same as the distance between Liberty's clashed chins. I've include a picture of a portion of the rim that exhibits an incuse area adjacent to the rim Cud. Very interesting. I've also pointed out the clashes at the date area. Finally, there is a hub-through. If my memory serves me right, I've only seen one other. This happens when there is a fiber between the hub and the die when it is pressed. It is similar to a strike-through on planchets, except it happened during hubbing. The other hub-through I have is from 1905 MSRB and it has a very long, wavy fiber running along the denticles below the date area. Report this Post to the Staff
Drsandman2 Pillar of the Community United States 1374 Posts	Posted 10/27/2014 10:42 am Well, we have a winner folks. Kevin Flynn and David Poliquin both agree that we have an off-center clash here and that it must have occurred in the press. I'm happier to know that my obsession with IHCs hasn't yet driven me totally crazy. Report this Post to the Staff
OcalaFlorida Pillar of the Community United States 2824 Posts	Posted 10/27/2014 5:24 pm Congrats on the Awesome find! and one heck of a informative post my mind is melting clashed over and over with great info! Report this Post to the Staff
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