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 Replies: 31 / Views: 5,237 |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
9865 Posts |
47P7 the ebay coin I linked to earlier is small date with close leaf 390950321325"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5397 Posts |
DBM congrats on your research. There is still so much to learn on the early decimal coins. Also concur about your comments on the obverse as OBV1. The intelligent approach rather than the "Grassy Knoll" approach usually results in correct observations !.........if you get what I mean!
I am now intrigued enough that I will have to dig out my 1858 stuff wherever the heck I hid it !
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1505 Posts |
Dialoge: I asked earlier to see the obverse and get a weight of the coin. No response? DBM, I am not concerned with the ebay Linked coin which is not the original subject coin. The ebay coin is a small date. Check the 5s . they are NOT tilted! Go to Heritage, look at a whole bunch, NOT tilted! And NO close leaf! Both 5s on the subject coin are tilted excessively to the right. I spent considerable time today closely looking at the subject coin, straightened and blown up and comparing it to others. Something else, besides the close leaf caught my eye: the Spacing of the numbers in the date and the location of the numerals 58. It does not correspond to any other 1858 5 cent which I have or have seen. So, I ask those of you who make strong statements (without caution) to have a very close look at the coin and do your own comparing to make sure that this is NOT a fake. If you are still so sure that it is real, then please explain, not just guess, these odd indicators, or proof that it is a widely accepted and known type. Should be easy if you are right! Correct? Now, there is another possibility here. Perhaps we have a so far unknown die? Possible, but then there should be more than one coin like it. Be honest guys, how often do you compare a coin with a other, same coin? It usually only happens when we are challenged to compare and search. But, if you only have one, it is rather difficult to compare. Remember, I never said that it is a fake! All I did is register some doubts as to its possible origin. You guys can skin me alive now, all my 5'11-230 lbs old and overweight body, call me whatever you want, but I am sticking to my opinion and findings at this time. Question: are we here to argue about who is right? Or are we here to learn from each other and find facts and solutions? Edited by 47P7
10/27/2014 11:23 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
9865 Posts |
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1505 Posts |
DBM, are you referring to Image 2? I think so.
I have honestly never seen this tilt in the 5s before on any 1858 5 cent.
Now, the leaf, it does not extend to where "our leaf" extends to.
Have you actually seen these tilted 5s before this post?
if that coin is the real thing, well, I guess then I am wrong.
I am surprised the Op has not posted the obverse and weight.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
9865 Posts |
I never noticed the close leaf or tilted 5 before seeing this thread. I guess I'm focused on looking for other things as quickly as I can. In fact I looked at the ebay close leaf before this thread and noticed only that it was small date, misaligned CANADA, the close leaf completely escaped my attention because my focus was elsewhere, you can be sure that from now on the close leaf and tilted 5 will have my attention as well as that of others. Hopefully in time another will be found and we can resolve whether this is a real variety or something else. Meanwhile additional photos and a weight from dialog would really be helpful. I'm sure dialog will get around to it. "Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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Valued Member
Canada
403 Posts |
Now you all got me curious, so I'm now going to have to check all of my 1858 5ยข. Great thread!
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1581 Posts |
> I asked earlier to see the obverse and get a weight of the coin. No response?
My day job is writing Siri-like software for various platforms. I'm drowning in work most of the time (6 day weeks are the rule, not the exception). This is my hobby. Please (begging), no requirement demands from my hobby.
> If you are still so sure that it is real, then please explain, not just guess, these odd indicators, or proof that it is a widely accepted and known type. Should be easy if you are right! Correct?
I wouldn't have posted to here if I could prove it was a known type. And wouldn't we both look stupid if it was? Also, the reverse argument works too. Fakes reuse dies like crazy, and the markers show up across multiple dates. So where are all the fake 5c with this leaf?
Wouldn't a new fake, that nobody can be sure is fake, be scary as hell?
> I'm sure dialog will get around to it.
Yep. I'm trying to find my darn camera. My phone is hopeless.
The slant of left strike of the five does seem to be tilted more. And here's a possible test: Lay a straight edge along it (credit card, piece of paper). The examples of SD will intersect with with right top serif of N in CENTS. But, this one is well right of the N (at least in my current pic). As we know, light and shadows can play tricks. So, I need to get a better pic.
But, take a look at page 256 and 257 of Charlton 2010. Those two 5s look to have distinctly different slants. Also, note the die crack at the leaf on page 256.
My theory, FWIW, is a very interesting die break due to a prevalence of cracks from the leaf tip.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1581 Posts |
Quote:
... and a weight from dialog would really be helpful.
That I can do ... drumroll: 1.14 grams Considering it is a low grade, it is suspicious that it is close to the 1.16 spec? |
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Valued Member
Canada
75 Posts |
47P7 From my observations of what I am seeing I find the angle of the 5 weird as well. However......... The top of the one does not seem to extend to left as it should, also the bottom of the S in Cents does not seem right to me either? Could be wear and or the quality and angle of picture? It also seems weird that the leaf that extends up to the one is not attached to the vine like any of the other 1858's I have seen either. Just what I pick up when I look at them in comparison.  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1472 Posts |
The explanation for the close leaf to the one is a die crack that comes from the left sid of the crown down through the left side of E and then the right side of the 1 to the leaf. Sorry, had to dig my coins out before I could give my opinion. I have at least three of this type, this is a pic of the best.  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1472 Posts |
More worn example.  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
9865 Posts |
One mystery solved.
Zonad do the 5's appear tilted on any of yours. Your first pic looks like the 5 may appear tilted in a full frontal pic.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
Edited by DBM
11/15/2014 4:32 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1505 Posts |
Zonad, great job. thanks for solving this mystery.
leaves the question of the tilted 5?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1472 Posts |
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Replies: 31 / Views: 5,237 |
First Page
Posted 10/27/2014 3:03 pm
