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Are There Any Newfie Coins Rated In PL ?

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Canada
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 Posted 11/17/2014  5:26 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add macdon to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Just curious if any Newfie coins rate a PL grade I haven't seen any reference ?
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Canada
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 Posted 11/17/2014  7:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes and no.
For Canadian collectors PL is not a grade, rather it denotes a special type of strike and finish used by the RCM for certain coins struck specifically for collectors. None were struck before 1949, a couple of years after Newfoundland coinage was toast. The Canadian grading companies, ICCS and CCCS will not slab any Newfoundland coins as PL.
Americans have a different definition of PL. See the glossary on this forum for the US definition of prooflike. PCGS will grade Newfoundland coins as PL if they meet the US requirements of the definition. Don't know what other US TPG's do.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
Edited by DBM
11/17/2014 7:20 pm
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
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 Posted 11/17/2014  7:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am curious enough to want to know the answer to this question as well! Google Images is sometimes a useful tool in this respect, but didn't turn up anything significant.
Therefore DBM's answer seems very reasonable to me.
Edited by sel_69l
11/17/2014 7:25 pm
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Pacificoin's Avatar
Canada
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 Posted 11/17/2014  8:11 pm  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Many of the 1943 five and ten cents can be prooflike in appearance.
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Canada
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 Posted 11/18/2014  09:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macdon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for replies and yes, Pacificoin your right- I have a 1945C 5 cent graded MS 65 by PCGS but it sure looks like a PL to me.
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Canada
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 Posted 11/18/2014  09:41 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are specimen strikes for NFLD coins, albeit quite rare.
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 Posted 11/18/2014  12:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 47P7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If a coin has the appearance and look of a certain Strike designation or is that designation according to mint records, does that mean that a TPG can simply decide that this coin is, for example, a PL strike?, proof strike and is not, in their "holy" opinion, what the mint says it is, etc?
is it not determined by the original mint what is being made that day? OR, what is being authorized by the then Government to be struck?
There are SP coins from NFL coinage. I have never heard of PL or proof coins.
curious, what do the old NFL records indicate?
SPP, I would assume that some of your NFL's would qualify as Proof?
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Pacificoin's Avatar
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 Posted 11/18/2014  12:31 pm  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The old Newfoundland records would say nothing as the coins were all made in either Birmingham, London , or Ottawa. Proof Like is a term that is thrown around loosely as a descriptive and is NOT official in any way. Used by coin collectors and TPG.
Almost all of the Ottawa issues from 1943 on were struck from chrome plated dies and a good deal of the 5 and ten cent silver pieces (especially fives) all exhibit what we would today consider "proof like" surfaces. This is especially note worthy when you examine pieces in MS63 or higher. Most of these even have Cameo to Heavy Cameo portraits.
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 Posted 11/18/2014  1:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 47P7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pacific, very interesting.
so, if a TPG feels like it and the coin warrants it, they can call it anything they want?
So, what about the SP designation? Is that a commonly accepted designation?
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Pacificoin's Avatar
Canada
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 Posted 11/18/2014  2:15 pm  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Specimen is a method of striking rather than a grade. The early specimen coins of Canada and Provincial issues are rare and spectacular to behold (if unimpaired). The issues of Queen Victoria tend to have highly frosted devices and lettering and mirror fields. The coinage of the Edwardian and George V reigns are generally considered to be a MATTE dull finish rather highly detailed and grainy in appearance. George VI specimen coinage continued to have this Matte type appearance in 1937. At this time the familiar overall highly polished look came into fashion late 1937 through the 1940's. Specimen coins and sets were purpose made for dignitaries , museums ,and the odd collector. Some items such as the Specimen 1936 dot cent and ten cents were allegedly made to order many years later ,as they all ended up originally with the same person. True double struck Royal Canadian Mint PROOF coinage was first issued in 1981.
As to what the TPG does each one is different. The US firms all call some highly polished well struck circulation strike Morgan dollars Proof like, Deep Proof like, Deep mirror proof like etc. and use the term(s) as warranted. Meant more as a descriptive than anything else. They are highly prized and do command hefty premiums. The Canadian firms use Pl as defined in the Charlton catalogue.
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 Posted 11/18/2014  2:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is a 1870 50 cent specimen coin up for sale in the upcoming TCNC sale, and I believe a few units were sold earlier this year from the Newman collection in the US.
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Canada
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 Posted 11/19/2014  12:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Vancouver IslandCoinKid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
yes I believe there is specimen coinage, but pl and proof and Sp are all different things. Remember the 1864 2 dollar nova scotia or Newfoundland that sold for like 110000. I may be wrong on my dates but...
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 Posted 11/19/2014  12:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 47P7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pacific, what about the 1908 sets?
very crisp, very sharp and ... nice.
unfortunately, I had one graded by ICCS about 8 years ago. it came back as MS 64/65 in "body bags".
it looked great in its purple case. but ICCS got the better of it.
I sold it to a collector in Chicago who already, so he said, had 6 of them.
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Pacificoin's Avatar
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 Posted 11/20/2014  12:03 pm  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As I said above the 1908 sets are Matte, somewhat grainy and highly detailed. Over the years we have handled a fair amount of these sets. They vary from mishandled Specimens ( cleaned ,played with) to Gem Specimen in appearance. Just depended on how they were stored or protected. Your comment about coming back MS 64/65 in body bags is not possible. They would have come back in body bags explaining what the problem was and would have been No Grades. When the 1908 sets and sovereigns come back from ICCS they are graded SP, not MS. Sounds to me like you had a problem set ( for whatever reason ) that they just would not grade.
Years ago when I had my coin shop I Had a gentleman come in with a 1908 set that he had polished with silver cleaner because the coins were in his words "dark and dirty". I passed !
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