1718 Spanish 8 Reales - Twins Or Not

MathieuMa I am suspicious of both of these because of a third example that appeared on the Sedwick site. The patina of the two coins on this site clearly means neither of these two match the third yet all three show numerous examples of post strike damage that are otherwise identical.

Now that I have seen THREE IDENTICAL copies I will not say any of the three is genuine without conclusive scientific tests on the coins to discover a "unique" genuine trait seen on only ONE exemplar.

MathieuMa The two coins you show are not the same coin - are you maintaining that they are?

Look at the shape of the chip near the S in Hispaniarum - it is not the same on these two coins even taking into account cleaning and lighting. A close look at many features indicates the same thing. There is also a scratch outside the ring of dentils near the M adjacent to the damaged dentil that appears only on ONE coin. There are many other smaller indications like the size of the dots on the crown at the right side near the rim or the damage to one of the joins in the double border line nearest the X in REX. Taken together I see a real concern that these are only the tip of the iceberg for this particular issue.

These are all coins cast from the same mold or a series of molds made from one master. They are likely casts in silver - but I ask has the density been checked in any case? Does the auction site where one of these two coins appeared have a record of the density? Or was it passed because it "looked" right? I suspect that any of these coins might pass the "looks right" test if seen in isolation.

However, now we know that regardless of how many of these were made that all but ONE example are FORGERIES. Perhaps the original if one existed is still in the forger's collection.

Having discussed modern forgery techniques with many experts (including active forgers as well as die makers) I know that cleaning of the type being postulated does not have to occur at all. The coin does not in fact have to be cleaned to produce a mold using many forms of dental plastic molding. Some techniques I will indicate do absolutely require cleaning especially those involving electro-chemical means. But to presume that the coins are identical and therefore one of those particular two must be real simply because it appeared in an prestigious auction is not credible. I have purchased many counterfeits from similar venues.

The coins I class as counterfeit are those that fail to pass scientific tests - primarily SG tests.

Yet I know of NO auction house that screens coins using SG testing and NONE that posts the SG of the coin in the auction data. You are quite frankly lucky to get an accurate weight.