1936 Dot 10 Cent

There is a die chip for sure, the coin has been known about for years and it is NOT an official marking from the Royal Canadian Mint. This has been discussed to death in at least two forums over the last five years. The dies were used to almost crumbling state in the early days of the mint and you can find so called dots , bars, etc. on just about any early issue if you look hard enough.

Fine lets disagree and be done with it!!

I'm tired of this happening, the coin is known about and accepted as a die chip and it has been for years just like the bar variety is known and accepted as a die crack BECAUSE IT IS just like how the dot dime this thread is about isonly a die chip/ pit. There is no reason the mint would put a dot there for any reason and until you can show documents proving different all you're gonna do is come off as stubborn and make a bad rep for yourself so can this nonsense just stop before the thread is closed or semeone is kicked off.

Can't we just call it the poor man's dot and move on?

It's the holidays for crying out loud

@47 the 1936 dot in wreath coin was known about as early as the late 1950's and was listed in some of the catalogues of the day Zoell included. You are correct there are many different issues (dates and denominations) with dots and die cracks and the like. You yourself have a great ability to dig up some interesting oddities and such. The fact that ,(unlike US and British coins ) Canadian coins are still in their infancy as far as scholarly study goes and probably will stay there for lots of reasons. The hobby in Canada is rife with numerous rumours and half truths and crazy half cocked theories. Unfortunate but that seems to be the way with the hobby here in Canada.
The dot coinage of 1936 is indeed incredibly controversial and needs a book if anyone wants that thankless job. It has been thrashed about for years what really happened back in the days surrounding the period of late 1936. The 25 cents coin was indeed issued with a dot and did circulate to a wide degree as many are found in lower states of preservation. According to the ICCS report of 2014 the average grade of a certified coin appears to be VG10- Fine 12. Most intermediate to advanced collectors will have a much nicer one in their collections.
It is a known fact that the 1936 coins wear in a much different pattern than the regular issue of 1936. All known die pairings of the 1936 Dot 25 cents are struck with convex reverses resulting in abnormal wear (qv. page 61 Standard Grading Guide to Canadian Decimal Coins James E Charlton & Robert C Willey). Being a "detective this tells me" the coins were struck somewhat hurriedly at a later time than December 12 th 1936 and before May 1937 and the release of the Modern George VI issue.
As to the ten cents and small cents with DOTS, all of the known examples are SPECIMEN coins and ended up in the hands of a couple of families of former Mint employees before ultimately ending up in the hands of JJ Pittman. I have had the wonderful opportunity to actually examine the coins that MR. Pittman displayed at the ANA convention years ago and can assure you that they look NOTHING like a normal circulation strike coin. To me this smells of a back door job at the Royal Canadian Mint ,most likely occurring well after 1937.
If these coins with alleged mintages of 191,237 for the ten cents and nearly 700,000 for the Small cent were indeed made for circulation, one would have surfaced by now. If one reads the mint report of the time there is no mention of the need for an emergency issue of these dot coins. There was NO shortage of cents as the mintages were all very healthy in the previous years. Indeed the same goes for the ten cents as well. Over 9X 1936 dimes were coined as compared to 1935.

:As to the ten cents and small cents with DOTS, all of the
known examples are SPECIMEN coins: That is true for the ten
cents but there is a mint state 1936 Dot cent. It was sold
last year by Heritage. It was the Pittman/Krause coin and
was graded PCGS MS63
Pacificoin is correct as others are concerning the 1936 DOT
coinage in that it is a Variety and not a Die State.
Everest

Pacificoin:Thank you for your response.In going back and looking
at the Pittman sale. David Akers refers to this coin as a Specimen
but acknowledges that Pittman and Jim Charlton and other experts
consider the coin a business strike .Akers goes on say that the
surfaces are distinctly different than the other 1936 DOT cents
that are in the Pittman collection
Everest

@ Everest excellent research. I would tend to agree that AKERS probably did have it right. When one had the opportunity to look at this coin, it certainly had a superior look to that of the 1936 business strikes. Furthermore Pittman must have truly been fascinated by the subject of the 1936 issues (or was covering a story for nefarious reasons) because when his stuff was sold off there were ROLLS of 1936 cents of the regular non dot issue. There are many pedigreed examples in ICCS and PCGS holders. I myself have an MS64 Red 1936. Pittman probably had his own reasons for wanting the coin considered as a business strike. As to Charlton he probably had his own reasons for wanting people to believe there were business strikes out there as well. Good business for his publication, would probably help sell more books. Over the years with additional information and research the figures of how many of these 1936 Dot Cents and ten cents have been confirmed has evolved. To give examples the 1953 Charlton 2nd edition states "All coins struck were put into circulation. The quarter is fairly readily found, but despite a larger issue ,only Two Cents have been reported as found in circulation and not one dime".
He then further goes on to state that "There is NO record of a dot cent or dime being sold or offered for sale, so no value can be placed on these coins at the present time ". One can surmise that since Charlton and Pittman knew each other ( the coin community in Canada being VERY tiny at that time ), they were on a kind of "fishing expedition" to see if there were any more out there.
By the fourth edition of Charlton in 1956 then goes on to state "only Two Cents and two dimes have been reported as found in circulation"
then further states " The sale of an uncirculated cent at $900 was recently recorded". My speculation is that is a coin being sold by a mint employees family to PITTMAN. The 1959 Charlton shows no mention of any sales. Going back to the first Charlton issued in 1952 there are photos of all three of the DOT denominations(1,10 and 25 cents). The photos can easily be matched up to the coins that were in JJ Pittmans possession. The troubling part of Charlton early editions is that they are contradictory. The aforementioned 1959 edition mentions in the pricing part of the catalogue "267- 1936 Dot. Only 8 known. 1500.00" on page 28. Then on page 30 "285-1936 Dot. Only 8 known 1500.00". These prices refer to the 1936 cent on page 28 and the dime on page 30.
Today the story in the 2015 Charlton 69th Edition is much different. Rather than bore you all the current story on the these mysterious issues is found on Page 60 for the cents and page 129 for the ten cents.
My theory ( unproven, but well researched and thought out) is that the coins were a back door issue that ended up in the hands of two mint employees and subsequently their families. The coins themselves were struck much later than 1936 and are all Specimens. The coins were all acquired by JJ Pittman ,some from the Lafortune family and then from the Roberts collection via another senior mint employees family. The purchase of the Roberts coin(through the above mentioned mint employees family) may have been the sale that Charlton alludes to in the standard catalogue.