Let's Thrash Out The Details For A Time Walk Thread

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Medieval Pillar of the Community 3772 Posts	Posted 01/20/2015 06:23 am There seems to be enough support to attempt a time walk based on decades, so let's come quickly to a conclusion how to set it up. Key points which need to be nailed down are: A. Adjudicator B. Direction C. Rules for posting D. Standards for dating A. Adjudicator That should be easy, I propose 'echizento' and I hope there in no serious objection (especially from 'echizento' himself). Since this thread could run for some time and 'echizento' might want to have a holiday, I would recommend that he nominates as stand-in another moderator with relevant knowledge ('Sap' comes to mind). B. Direction While I personally would favour going from the distant past toward 1600, it seems more practical to start with 1591-1600 and word down. That would avoid trying to find out what a suitable ancient starting date would be. And it also would perhaps be able to trigger some interest from members who rarely (or never) visit this forum. C. Rules for posting Similar rules to https://goccf.com/t/195589 should apply: 1. You must own the coin 2. You must post a picture of the actual coin you own. 3. The coin can be from any place. 4. The decade must be matched according to dating standards (see D). 5. On decade per day. Once a valid coin has been posted for the decade, the next day (CCF time) will be for the next decade. 6. No jumping forward or backwards, only coins fitting the posting day to be posted. 7. Only one coin per post. 8. Not two post for the same decade by the same poster in sequence (ie at least one valid coin from another poster in between two posts by the same poster for the decade of the day). Any controversy to be amicably resolved - the adjudicator has the final say. D. Dating standards If a poster has several coins fitting into the decade of that day, preference should be given to the coin which most clearly fits in. Clearly coins which show a specific date or are from a ruler whose total reign fits into one decade are no problems. Also coins which have been dated by records to such a period are no problem. What is important is that relevant references are given, for the time of a ruler a Wikipedia link will do, when it comes to dating by records an accepted reference work has to be quoted, eg Sear for Roman coinage. The question is what do to with coins which have a longer minting period, I do see two reasonable options: a: use the start of the period b. use the middle of the period Personally I would favour option 'b' but am quite happy to get along whichever which way. This might be suitable for minting periods not (substantially) exceeding 30 years, but what to do with coin from a longer minting period. Actually the maximum justifiable length of a minting period to be used needs to be determined. Personally I consider the 30 years used in the last paragraph to be possible but would prefer a shorter one. =========================================================== Would be very happy if everyone would indicate support for A-C and make some more detailed comments on the dating issue. Report this Post to the Staff

january1may Pillar of the Community Russian Federation 5177 Posts	Posted 01/20/2015 06:43 am Quote: 5. On decade per day. Once a valid coin has been posted for the decade, the next day (CCF time) will be for the next decade. 6. No jumping forward or backwards, only coins fitting the posting day to be posted. You might need to clarify; as written, it sounds like the decade to be posted advances each day regardless of whether a coin is actually posted (kind of more like a Days Of thread). Which I'm pretty sure isn't what was intended (the linked rules phrased it slightly better, though IIRC still ambiguously). On dating standards: I suspect we'd have problems finding suitable standards once we get to the 5th century or so (Sear isn't very affordable, and I'm not sure if you'll count Tesorillo and similar places). It shouldn't be (much of) a problem for the 16th century, however. Oh, and I definitely agree that a coin shouldn't count for any decade if its minting period (or known date range of such) is closer to a century. Report this Post to the Staff
Medieval Pillar of the Community 3772 Posts	Posted 01/20/2015 07:00 am To satisfy your standard on how the thread progresses, might change #5 slightly to: 5. On decade per day. Once a valid coin for the decade has been posted the thread advances to the next decade on midnight CCF time (and stays on that decade until a valid coin has been posted for it). And on the dating standards, yes there will be problem periods but there are quite some dynasties in various parts of the world which can be dated - minting records are limited though for some centuries. Exactly that is the reason I created this thread. Some we can still sort out when already on the run. 'echizento' as moderator can update the op, he is not bound by the 24 hour limit. But we still need to sort it out soon, once settled it should not be changed. Report this Post to the Staff
echizento Moderator United States 23731 Posts	Posted 01/20/2015 09:10 am My only concern now is that this thread is going to mirror the one that is already on going. If it does that's going to be a problem. We can not have the same thread running in two different sections of the forum. I think we should start at the earliest date first and work our way up to 1600. Lastly, this is your idea so you should be the one that oversees it. This thread is going to take a lot of time and effort to keep up with, and I just have too many other things on my plate to be able to devote a lot of time to it. Report this Post to the Staff
Ancientnoob Pillar of the Community United States 5155 Posts	Posted 01/20/2015 09:47 am I welcome the challenge. Report this Post to the Staff
VisigothKing Pillar of the Community United States 4778 Posts	Posted 01/20/2015 10:56 am Yeah I echo what Echizento says. Since this is yours Medieval, you should be the one that runs this. Report this Post to the Staff
Ancientnoob Pillar of the Community United States 5155 Posts	Posted 01/20/2015 1:04 pm Medieval, I think it should be officially announced when a new decade is to be shown. So often with the alphabetical rulers, people would not have say an "X" but would immediately move onto "y" or "z" when there was still hours left of "X." So each day you should formally declare the decade of the day, so there can be no wondering or flip flopping. Report this Post to the Staff
Medieval Pillar of the Community 3772 Posts	Posted 01/20/2015 4:18 pm Quote: My only concern now is that this thread is going to mirror the one that is already on going. If it does that's going to be a problem. We can not have the same thread running in two different sections of the forum. There are now three threads in the main coin forum, each on another date. So there should not be a problem having one here with slightly different dating. Quote: I think we should start at the earliest date first and work our way up to 1600. As said, I would personally prefer that as well. But to do so would need some preliminary work to find out which decade to start in. Eg, my oldest coin with a proper date on it is from year 22 of Aradus (= 238+BC), then it goes into the second century BC). The oldest which fits into a decade without some dating standard is a coin from Thebes, minting period 379 BC to 371 BC. And slightly older is a coin from Amyntas III, before that it's mainly 'century', 'late x century/early y century' or similar. Quote: Lastly, this is your idea so you should be the one that oversees it. While I have no problem to contribute not just by posting coins, I still think it would be better that a moderator should be the final adjudicator. ==================================================== Please everyone, some comment on 'dating' coins spanning across the boundaries of a decade. Report this Post to the Staff
Medieval Pillar of the Community 3772 Posts	Posted 01/20/2015 7:22 pm Quote: Medieval, I think it should be officially announced when a new decade is to be shown. Fair enough - and since I am often the only one awake when the clock ticks over (or at least in the early hours of the CCF day), I am quite prepared to make a relevant post. But please everyone comment on 'dating standards'. Would definitely not feel comfortable with coins which have a minting period exceeding 30 year, could reduce that to 20 or even 10 the latter would be a decade but potentially overlapping. For minting periods crossing the boundaries of a decade, there are two options imo: use the start year (would feel comfortable if a maximum span of 10 years is agreed) or use the middle (would feel more comfortable with this if a longer period is accepted). So please comment on that - throw other ideas in the ring if you have. And also comment on direction again. If you favour starting from the beginning please mention the earliest reasonably dateable coins in your possession as well. Report this Post to the Staff
echizento Moderator United States 23731 Posts	Posted 01/20/2015 7:29 pm I'm sure that the moderators will observe what's going on in the thread and if need be step in if a issues arises, but the everyday running should be left up to you. Report this Post to the Staff
Ancientnoob Pillar of the Community United States 5155 Posts	Posted 01/20/2015 8:34 pm I really had to take my time and think about how to approach the dating conundrum. First, In the Archaic period we are not even sure when the manufacture of coins truly began in Anatolia. Did this happen in BC 725, BC 700, BC 650, BC 625, BC 600? All are accepted dates in one way or another. When did this occur? In India BC 600?, In China BC 1049- BC 771, Spring and Autumn? So for the first two weeks will be rigorous. In order to combat this, I propose a fluctuating tolerance of dating. Otherwise Day One, I will post my silver Aegina Turtle Stater, one of a few types that can comfortably be dated BC 600-550, based on BMC attribution. What if someone decides to post a Chinese Bronze Shell from that cant be dated any earlier than BC 771. I suppose I could while people post there early electrum staters of the 7th century BC. If there must be a tolerance I suggest... 100 years, until BC 500 50 years, until BC 400 25 years, until AD 0 10 years, until AD 600 50 years, until AD 1300 25 years, until AD 1600 10 years, until AD 2015 Report this Post to the Staff
Medieval Pillar of the Community 3772 Posts	Posted 01/20/2015 10:54 pm Thanks for the extensive reply. Since we here are only dealing with coinage up to 1600, can forget about the newer stuff. We really need a simple rule, one other argument for starting from the top. While I see some weakness between 671 and 960, I still think one should try to keep a range of approximately 10 years. Don't forget that there are quite some people who have ancient and/or medieval coinage who don't (or rarely) show up on this forum. (Will just need to find a way to lure them in at the right time.) If we water down the valid period it becomes to easy and is not a challenge anymore (based on your period suggestion I probably could cover more than 90% of those). My latest thinking on a simple standard for coins minted in more than one decade: Coins with a minting period fitting into two decades are a valid entry for the first decade, but only if no dated coin from the same issuer and minting period has been posted for the second decade. Example 1: Coinage from Justin I (518-527) can be a valid entry for the 511-520 decade. Example 2: If a coin from Justin II (565-578) has been posted with year 8 (ie 572), no undated coin from him will be a valid entry for the decade 561-570. To allow members to post other coins with a minting period crossing over into another decade (or more), they will be free to post it in the starting decade after a valid entry for the decade has been posted. If we go backwards, the time frame for a valid entry can be adjusted once we hit the wall in the third, fourth or fifth century BC. This will then allow members to post their very early coinage and make the whole thread more interesting and valuable as a reference. Report this Post to the Staff
jbuck Moderator United States 189340 Posts	Posted 01/21/2015 10:57 am Quote: My only concern now is that this thread is going to mirror the one that is already on going. If it does that's going to be a problem. We can not have the same thread running in two different sections of the forum. This is not really a problem. We are dealing with two different eras. Quote: There are now three threads in the main coin forum, each on another date. So there should not be a problem having one here with slightly different dating. Agreed. The first two threads have stalled. The original at 1495 and the latter at 1651. The current main forum thread is at 2014, so no worry there. I assure you that this ancient thread will be well into BCE dates by the time the third thread gets to the colonial era. The reason for this thread is to get past that 1600~1500ish hump the other keep hitting. So this thread starts at the 1600 hump and moves back by decades (or centuries if necessary), rather than years. Coin Collector Since 1978 Avatar Old Avatar 7070 Eisenhower Australia Canada World CCF Members on eBay CCF eBay Search Engine Report this Post to the Staff
Medieval Pillar of the Community 3772 Posts	Posted 01/21/2015 4:47 pm Thanks for the moral support 'jbuck'. But can the more regulars here have a look at my latest thinking for allocating a coin to a decade and comment on it please. Report this Post to the Staff
VisigothKing Pillar of the Community United States 4778 Posts	Posted 01/21/2015 5:12 pm This seems more complicated than it should be. I like Anoob's way of organizing it, only I would make it 10 years from 0-300 AD, then 25 years to 600 AD. Report this Post to the Staff
echizento Moderator United States 23731 Posts	Posted 01/21/2015 5:19 pm I agree, Anoob's idea seems to be the best. The more complicated this becomes the less people would want to get involved with it. Report this Post to the Staff
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