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Legend - What Does It Say?

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Topcat7's Avatar
1121 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2015  02:02 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Topcat7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers

Med. I understand what you said about turning the coin in the light with a jeweller's loupe. I have done that with THIS coin but any letters that I can make out do not help me at all.
Would you like to have a go?

Can anyone out there help me with this legend, please?


Legend---What-Does-It-Say?

Legend---What-Does-It-Say?

Legend---What-Does-It-Say?

Legend---What-Does-It-Say?

Legend---What-Does-It-Say?

Legend---What-Does-It-Say?
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Medieval's Avatar
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 Posted 02/05/2015  02:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Medieval to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"DN CL IVLIAN - V? NOB CAES", ie Julian II as Caesar. The 'S' (where I put the '?') looks a little strange, the rest is straight forward.
Edited by Medieval
02/05/2015 02:15 am
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Topcat7's Avatar
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 Posted 02/05/2015  02:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Topcat7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

One day I might have come across enough of these to know what they are withOUT having to be told.

I can see (now that you have told me) what it says, but (despite my schoolboy Latin), the 'import' would still have been lost to me.

Thank-you. I shall now go about trying to attribute the coin.

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Topcat7's Avatar
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 Posted 02/05/2015  02:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Topcat7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Thank-you, Med. I have RIC VIII 190.
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Gil-galad's Avatar
United States
2044 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2015  03:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gil-galad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, that one is pretty easy. Even if you can't tell what some of the letters are, there is the number of letters and placement to help ID.
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Medieval's Avatar
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 Posted 02/05/2015  04:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Medieval to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
the number of letters and placement


Add to that the structure and you are nearly home.

For the benefit of 'Topcat7', I'll go quickly through the mental processes while reading the legend on that coin:

1. Passing through the images, the N and the V on the obverse stand out, ie ".N...V..." break.
2. On the reverse the 'B' jumps out, now let's look at the structure:

[title(s), if present] name [title(s)]

There are no names of potential candidates which have a 'B' that late in the name, so it has to be part of the titles - NOB C and NOC CAES are the obvious candidates.

3. Looking a little closer, the NOB C is easily confirmed and with letters remaining, just need to check that AES makes sense.

4. Now the name usually ends in an S and before that only N or V make sense. So. now we have

.N...V... - [N or V]S NOB CAES

back to the obverse and since there are no names which have N as second letter it is a fair assumption that the letter in front is (or can be) a D.

4. A further short look confirms that it can be a D and shows something like a C next. So now the legend looks like

DN C? IV?..? - [N or S]S NOB CAES

5. Based on what the common legends are, it is easily confirmed that it is

DN CL IVL?.? - [N or V]S NOB CAES

6. Since there are not enough letters, first one can rule out CONSTANS, ie the V is fixed. This leaves 3 letters to be verified, which should be IAN and they are.

All that goes (off course) faster than it can be written down.

In the end it boils down to knowing the structure of the legend and the common element - school Latin can help to understand the meaning of the elements but is not necessary.
Not to forget an understanding in the variation of the script, eg A, B and R can look more or less the same.

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Topcat7's Avatar
1121 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2015  05:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Topcat7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Med,

I REALLY appreciate that. (Informative, and flowing.)

I pride myself on having a modicum of common-sense and with that on board and the pathway you have provided I see a great start there for all of these coins that I have to work my way through. Thank-you, again. I have done 4 or 5 since reading your advice.

However, please do not be surprised if (even with the knowledge that you have given to me), I still call for help with some of them.

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Ancientnoob's Avatar
United States
5155 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2015  09:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ancientnoob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great ancient detective work. There are a few members here who are real LRB sleuths, and can pick a needle out of a stack of needles.
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2015  09:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
TC you are getting better everyday, pretty soon you will be able to tell who it is with only a few of the letters visible.
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Veton's Avatar
Spain
108 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2015  11:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Veton to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi.

He may be Ivlianus II (355-363):

DNCLIVLIAN VSNOBCAES -Dominus Claudius Iulianus nobilissimus caesar-

v.

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Topcat7's Avatar
1121 Posts
 Posted 02/06/2015  03:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Topcat7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Using what I have learnt from this 'post' I have attributed a number of coins including ;-

a Gratian AE3 Rome RIC IX 24c type xiv.
a Theodosius 1 AE4 Cyzicus RIC IX 21e
a Licinius 1 AE2 RIC VI 73 Type 2A
a Crispus AE3 Thessalonica RIC VII 98
a Constantine 1 AE3 Heraclea RIC VII 60 B
a Severina Billon Antoninianus Rome RIC 4
a Severina AE2 Rome RIC 3s
Well, you get the picture.

I am feeling a bit pleased with myself, but as the saying goes, I owe it all to you.
THANKS.

Edited by Topcat7
02/06/2015 06:04 am
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Medieval's Avatar
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 Posted 02/06/2015  06:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Medieval to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good to hear.
Once you have 'mastered' a certain approach, it's like riding a bike or swimming. While you might get a little rusty by taking a break for a while (I had a break for several years), it doesn't take long to get back into it.
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