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Iridescent Green Toning On Copper

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themetallurgist's Avatar
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 Posted 02/17/2015  12:03 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add themetallurgist to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
This one particular seller on ebay has been selling such crazy toned coins. They've offered several coins with an iridescent toned proofs that are PCGS slabbed. Are they working some kind of gassing trick?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1937-PCGS-P...S:SS:US:3160
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SPP-Ottawa's Avatar
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 Posted 02/17/2015  12:21 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you are referring to the 1-cent coins, they are all proof strikes and seem natural to me. You can get some pretty vivid colours on proof strike cents....
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sel_69l's Avatar
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 Posted 02/17/2015  01:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I hate slabs, but thank goodness that this one has been.

Toning that delicate on a bronze coin has to be preserved. I hope that slab is truely airtite. Attractive toning ia a very transitory thing, and if it can be stopped at a particular point, then so be it.
One only hopes that it wasn't a red coin that has been very carefully heat treated.

I wouldn't buy it because I don't have a facility for storing slabbed coins in my collection, but that's just me.
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themetallurgist's Avatar
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 Posted 02/17/2015  10:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add themetallurgist to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
sel_69l - how do they need to be stored? I have several toned coins in slabs and working on an entire Indian cent toned proof collection.
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 Posted 02/17/2015  11:21 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Low humidity is the most important factor...
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 02/17/2015  12:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Slabs are not air tight and should be stored with the same care as raw coins. The final storage step for any coin you're not handling on a daily basis should be an airtight container of some sort - I'm a big fan of food-grade Ziplock bags with the air pushed out - so humidity, atmospheric chemicals and above all oxygen cannot reach the surface of the coin.
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 Posted 02/17/2015  1:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


And I'll add...mo layers = mo betta
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themetallurgist's Avatar
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 Posted 02/18/2015  3:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add themetallurgist to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thanks guys. I've been working on a vacuum chamber. it's been done, but there's a real slow leak. I could also use it to pump out the air in the slabs and back fill argon gas into the chamber and ultimately the slabs. i'll show the construction soon... so are there any folks in the community that I can call and ask other questions about toning? mainly copper toning. maybe someone on other forums? nobody at the local coins shows know anything...
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 Posted 02/18/2015  3:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I could also use it to pump out the air in the slabs and back fill argon gas into the chamber and ultimately the slabs.


Why? Slabs aren't air tight.
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themetallurgist's Avatar
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 Posted 02/18/2015  4:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add themetallurgist to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
maybe not airtight, but the diffusion of oxygen or moisture coming into the slab might be slowed... and maybe it won't help due to cycling low and high pressure weather systems throughout the years.
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 Posted 02/18/2015  6:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
IF you wanted to try something, and if you have a Soldering iron, you could get it really hot, run it along the edges of a slab. The only place a slab can acquire moisture is at the edges. IF you can further seal all edges by melting the plastic, should make them air tight and moisture proof. MAYBE.
However, this is and would be difficult to prove that the finished product is now air and moisture proof. One way would be to submerge it in water for a few years.
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 Posted 02/18/2015  7:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
maybe not airtight, but the diffusion of oxygen or moisture coming into the slab might be slowed... and maybe it won't help due to cycling low and high pressure weather systems throughout the years.


You can stop that diffusion completely by putting the slab into a ziplock bag. Why go to the effort?
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 Posted 02/18/2015  9:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have always recommended staying away from using any sort of vacuum....

The air encased in a holder is at equilibrium with it's environment. Substantially reducing the pressure around the slab will remove the entrapped air disturbing the equilibrium. Now, if you can keep that perfect vacuum indefinitely, you'd have great protection However, the reality is that it's impossible to maintain a perfect vacuum seal. Over time - the holder will actually reabsorb air/gasses/contaminants and come to equilibrium with it's surroundings....in other words, some fresh contaminants will be DRAWN into the slab as the pressures acclimate over time.
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themetallurgist's Avatar
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 Posted 02/18/2015  10:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add themetallurgist to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
just carl - soldering the edges and dunking in water is a very interesting idea! I was thinking of a test today and thought about drilling a hole and sealing in an oxygen sensor in the slab after sucking out the air and back filling with nitrogen and monitor the oxygen levels over the weeks/years.

superdave - also thought about a sealed bag, but I'm not sure how I'd like looking at the coin through yet another barrier. it probably wouldn't be much of an iddue though. I've made my vacuum chamber large enough to fit an entire dansco album laying flat. (will show in the future)

badthad - after drawing out the air in the slab, you could back fill the chamber (and slab) with an inert gas like nitrogen or argon. maybe leave the slab in the nitrogen filled chamber over time to allow the pressure acclimation. I've get several Lincoln proof coins in slabs with amazing orange/purple toning graded as Red that only could have toned in the slab.
Edited by themetallurgist
02/18/2015 10:55 pm
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sel_69l's Avatar
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 Posted 02/19/2015  07:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is it possible to weld the slab edges together with acetone?
Use VERY tiny droplets only to avoid capillary action.
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 Posted 02/19/2015  10:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
badthad - after drawing out the air in the slab, you could back fill the chamber (and slab) with an inert gas like nitrogen or argon. maybe leave the slab in the nitrogen filled chamber over time to allow the pressure acclimation. I've get several Lincoln proof coins in slabs with amazing orange/purple toning graded as Red that only could have toned in the slab.


If you're planning to permanently maintain an inert gas storage container for the slab for as long as you own the coin, that would be fine. If not, no matter what you do, the gas will diffuse through the slab material eventually.

The best thing you can do to protect slabs is to put them into ziplock bags with a sacrificial copper cent. Then put those bags in Tupperware-type containers and store at a constant, controlled temperature. Doing so will slow the diffusion process to a nearly undetectable level and your coins will never change in your lifetime.

IMO, all this fiddling around with inert gases is interesting conceptually but an exercise in futility. The major TPG slabs are essentially air tight but plastic is porous and trying to fight diffusion is impossible.
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