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 Replies: 11 / Views: 4,251 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6385 Posts |
A fellow coin club member showed me a beautiful 1929 Standing Liberty quarter at our meeting last night. He had purchased this coin in an older green-label PCGS slab. The assigned PCGS grade was MS-62 FH (full head). He felt it was a strong candidate for an upgrade and decided to crack it out and resubmit. The coin came back in a body bag labeled as "altered surfaces".  If my friend hadn't shown me the cracked-open, original MS62FH holder, I might have suspected he was putting me on! Now it's one thing for PCGS to "tighten up" their grading standards. It's a very different thing for them to reject a coin that they themselves had previously determined was OK to slab. What kind of message does this send? Are some of those high-priced coins currently sitting in PCGS slabs actually problem coins that belong in a body bag? PCGS hasn't liked most of the coins I've submitted through Super Dave's group submissions. Maybe my rejects were actually just as good as many coins that did get slabbed! I hope my friend follows through with PCGS on this. If it were my coin I'd insist on an explanation. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2884 Posts |
In my experience with PCGS submissions, in the past, as well as 5 out my last 13 submissions PCGS seems to reject a % of everything I submit. I have re-submitted the very same coins and had them come back slabbed. I have also experienced what your freind had happen. I do much better when my coins are submitted through a high volume dealer friend. I try not to abuse his kindness asking him to do this for me except on high value coins.
It was through him that my PCGS AU58 Type Two Gold Dollar came back an MS62! I wonder why that is? By the way, I recently had a beautiful original Bust Half come back with "altered surfaces". What a generic rejection that seems to be. I've heard of cleaned, whizzed, tooled, AT'd etc...but what the hay is altered surfaces exactly? Mike
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I have seen anacs do the same thing with a coin that was resubmitted to be put in the new holders and this coin was sent in, in the original ANACS slab. The only difference when they got the coin back was it was down graded and had a net grade, it was still in the small holder still because at that time they put problem coins in the smaller holders. So he sent in his problem free coin to just be re-encapsulated in the new type holder and all he got was a full reaming from ANACS because he got the same holder he sent the coin in with and it was net graded because they now say it is a problem coin. Atleast PCGS didn't crack the coin out themselves to down grade or bodybag the coin your friend sent in
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the wise thing be to leave the coin slabbed and send it in to PCGS. The graders are not supposed to know the grade the coin came in as and it should insure the PCGS guarantee would be honored. This is my understanding ... in a perfect world. This would only apply to a PCGS to PCGS re-grade. Anyone else have a different experience. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5953 Posts |
The last Submission to PCGS through Super Dave one of my 2 Cents came back altered surfaces. I am sending it off to NGC through their ebay plan. I am also thinking about sending the one they called environmental damage as I have 3 others with similar toning and 2 of them are in PCGS slabs. I will keep you posted on the results. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6385 Posts |
Hi SeatedNut, Yes, in a perfect world that would be best. However, I for one am suspicious that PCGS and other graders are reluctant to upgrade their own slabs. It's way too easy for them to take your money and just say that the original grade is correct. Assuming I had a PCGS coin I felt was undergraded, I would probably cross my fingers and crack it out. I would have to be willing to take the risk that they would give it the same grade or (God forbid!) assign a lower grade. What I don't think is right is for PCGS to body-bag a coin which they previously determined was OK. The fact that this does happen really makes me question their expertise. Are they sometimes just guessing? As the top grading service, they should at a minimum be able to reliably distinguish between problem coins and no-problem coins. If they can't get this right (or at least consistent!), how much confidence can collectors have that their grade assignments are accurate? Oh well, I'll probably fume about this for a few weeks. After that, if SuperDave decides to send more coins for grading, I'll probably be back in the pack to take my chances!  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
Jaobler ... that sounds like a great argument. Why don't you let PCGS know all the details and share their response with the community? I for one am very curious how they will respond ... a cop-out response that without the coin in the original holder, they take no responsibility ... a form letter outlining their policies ... or a genuine attempt to frame the issue and offer solutions.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1984 Posts |
As if I needed another reason to think that TPGs were a complete joke.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
2830 Posts |
G'day from Oz, I have yet to understand the preoccupation with TPG. I read threads like this, and wonder why you persist. But I have a question: what fee do you pay to alphabetize a coin ? And, has anyone ever received a payment from a TPG, by was of compensation for incorrect grading, regrading, etc ? - is there any upside to the process ? Peter |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I know a few people that have gotten a reimbursement of the difference between one grade and another from PCGS because of incorrect grading. It doesn't happen very often but have a buddy that sent 2 coins in for presidential review and got a check for one of them and received a replacement coin for the other one because they were both graded PF-69 and had obvious flaws that would keep it from grading anything above PF-67 (not to mention the milk spots)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
G'day to you Peter. TPG's exist and are used to provide a level of confidence when buying and trading coins, especially for those who are completely lost with grading, and those who are purchasing for an investment. Coins "alphabetized" by a reputable TPG (PCGS, NGC, ANACS, and sometimes ICG) are easier to move because the novice buyer trusts the name on the slab more than the coin within. That's why the reputable TPG's do more than the non-reputables in quality control to maintain their good name. PCGS offers a guarantee for issues like the one initially addressed here. Had the coin been sent back intact in the slab and body-bagged during the grading process, PCGS would have re-imbursed the owner the amount they paid for the coin (the owner would need to provide proof of the price they paid). Costs for grading vary by company, type, and final value of the coin. Coins with a final value of less than $500 cost between $15 and $40. There are many other variables (quantity discounts, etc) and all you need do is visit the companies web-page for pricing. Ahhh, but I'm with you! There's nothing like feeling real silver or gold in your hand. All the coins in my personal collection are not slabbed. Those in slabs will be sold or traded eventually.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
quote:
a cop-out response that without the coin in the original holder, they take no responsibility
It isn't a cop-out, the TPG has no idea what may have happened to the coin between the time it was cracked and when they received it (or even that it is the same coin) so naturally they can not extend their guarantee to cover coins that have been removed from the holders. quote:
PCGS offers a guarantee for issues like the one initially addressed here. Had the coin been sent back intact in the slab and body-bagged during the grading process, PCGS would have re-immburse the owner the amount they paid for the coin (the owner would need to provide proof of the price they paid).
Actually they will either replace the coin,return the coin downgraded and pay the difference in fair market value between the two grades, or keep the coin and pay the fair market value for the grade it was. What you paid for it does not matter. The other interesting thing is that PCGS is the on who determines what the fair market value is, and it is NOT what they list in their PCGS price guide. You may only be offered 75% of what their price guide says it is worth. If it is a recent purchase where you liked it and "reached" on the price, too bad you will most likely get back less than you paid for it. What I don't understand is that PCGS also has a guarantee that if you submit a coin still in the PCGS slab for regrading, it will not be down graded. To me this seems to be at odds with their other guarantee, and it also seems ripe for abuse. If a coin comes in that was overgraded (not turned or milk-spotted in the holder) rather than have to pay off under the first guarantee, you just apply the second guarantee, send the coin back still overgraded in a new holder and keep their submission money. The no downgrade guarantee become a "We don't have to pay off on our first guarantee, and you will pay us to stiff you." plan. |
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Replies: 11 / Views: 4,251 |
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Posted 10/10/2007 6:07 pm
