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Banned

New Zealand
306 Posts
 Posted 10/01/2005  01:14 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Aidan Work to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Before you even think of dealing with Paypal,you'd better read this first; https://www.paypalwarning.com .

Aidan.
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Susanlynn9's Avatar
United States
5877 Posts
 Posted 10/02/2005  6:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Susanlynn9 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Paypal is like any other tool. It needs to be used carefully. It is possible to accept payments through and purchase with Paypal quite successfully. We have been doing it for 3 years now. Just be sure to read the fine print and know their rules.
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bobby131313's Avatar
United States
24163 Posts
 Posted 10/02/2005  8:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Aiden, do you have a Paypal account? Have you ever read the user agreement? Do you know that ANYONE can post on that site without fear?

99% of those people don't use Paypal the way its supposed to be used. Then they get burnt because they didn't follow Paypal's rules. They ship to an unconfirmed address or don't use delivery confirmation, then get charged back and blame Paypal.

If you follow Paypal's terms of service, you're safe.

One more question, did you know that you run the same risks with any merchant account?

All three of the question at the top of the homepage, the correct answer is NO.
Rest in Peace
Morgan Fred's Avatar
United States
2684 Posts
 Posted 10/02/2005  9:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgan Fred to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Aiden, I'll add to what Bobbie wrote: I have used PayPal for more than six years (before it was purchased by ebay) and have never had a problem. While I am only one person and my sample size is not statistically significant except to me, I think the majority of people who use PayPal have had no problems. If there was, in fact, a significant number of people who were distressed by PayPal and ceased using it, then we can bet our sweet bippies that ebay would dump or radically change PayPal in a heartbeat.

The paypalwarning site is a collection of horror stories which, I am certain because I have a few such stories myself, are the same stories as may be found at any bank. People make mistakes at banks, get burned, then blame the institution rather than themselves. I'm still upset a little at my own bank for not notifying me of a change of policy which cost me a little money; my own fault says the bank since I didn't check the website for changes (I do not check each of my 6000 bookmarks for changes very often) and I didn't read my postal mail (which I receive only about once per month). Occasionally, the bank is actually wrong and will rectify the situation as will PayPal. Further, although the paypalwarning.com site is certainly educational, it really cannot provide any assistance to those who feel they have been wronged; I believe the main purpose of the site is to permit people to blow off steam. I also suspect a significant number of people who have problems with PayPal also have problems at their own bank.

I trust PayPal enough (as much as I trust any financial institution: as long as they play by their own rules and don't change their rules on me in mid-transaction) that most of my sales auctions are PayPal only and I almost never buy anything unless I can do so by PayPal.

Fred

Banned
New Zealand
306 Posts
 Posted 10/03/2005  10:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Aidan Work to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bobby & Fred,I don't have a Paypal account,but I do know someone who has been burnt by Paypal,but this was before ebay took it over.He now uses Bidpay or its German equivilant,which I can't remember off hand.

Aidan.
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bobby131313's Avatar
United States
24163 Posts
 Posted 10/03/2005  10:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Bobby & Fred,I don't have a Paypal account,but I do know someone who has been burnt by Paypal,


You don't supply any details of this "burning" though.

Odds are he burned himself by not following the TOS.
Banned
New Zealand
306 Posts
 Posted 10/04/2005  01:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Aidan Work to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No,Bobby,Paypal ripped the money out of his account & froze it.The guy I know was a seller on ebay.

Aidan.
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Susanlynn9's Avatar
United States
5877 Posts
 Posted 10/04/2005  08:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Susanlynn9 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Aidan, what were the circumstances? Did the seller send his package with Delivery Confirmation? Did he ship to a confirmed US address only? What exactly happened?
Rest in Peace
Morgan Fred's Avatar
United States
2684 Posts
 Posted 10/04/2005  7:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgan Fred to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Susanlynn9

Aidan, what were the circumstances? Did the seller send his package with Delivery Confirmation? Did he ship to a confirmed US address only? What exactly happened?



My feeling is that PayPal isn't going to do anything arbitrarily such as freeze an account. They probably have their hands full with real problem accounts without making more work (and bad PR) for themselves by capriciously freezing someone's account or otherwise harrassing them.

I haven't read PayPal's TOS recently. Is there some prohibition to shipping to unconfirmed addresses?

Speaking of shipping to confirmed addresses only, I've been watching auctions again and have found a fair and increasing number of sellers won't ship to unconfirmed addresses (meaning the shipping address is different from the credit card address). As a fulltime RVer and snowbird, I have my legal and credit card address in NY and my winter address in Arizona, so my AZ address is unconfirmed. This used to bug me (and still does), but I see where the seller is coming from, so before I bid, I contact the seller, explain my transient and seasonal situation and ask him/her if s/he will ship to my AZ address. Usually, the seller will go along with it; if not, I don't bid.

Fred

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Susanlynn9's Avatar
United States
5877 Posts
 Posted 10/04/2005  7:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Susanlynn9 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fred,

The Seller Protection Policy states that a seller is only protected if the item is shipped to a confirmed US address with delivery confirmation.

When they started confirming addresses overseas, this understandably angered many overseas buyers who had confirmed addresses as Paypal did not change their Seller Protection Policy to include confirmed international addresses as eligible for Seller Protection.

If a seller ships against the TOS in the Seller Protection Policy and the buyer states that he/she didn't receive it, the buyer will automatically win any dispute. This is how sellers' accounts were being charged back. They don't follow the TOS; the buyer may or may not have received the package and complains to Paypal; Paypal awards the money to the buyer...QED.
Valued Member
adobero1's Avatar
United States
363 Posts
 Posted 10/06/2005  12:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add adobero1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One other thing I noticed is that this site, besides being there for people to blow off steam, is in essence, an advertisement for a Paypal alternative. I agree that if these instances of abuse were running rampant as is suggested, ebay would dump Paypal immediately. There's just too much at stake. I'm always leery of any company whose main advertising theme is dwelling on the supposed negative aspects of their more successful competitors.
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Susanlynn9's Avatar
United States
5877 Posts
 Posted 10/06/2005  09:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Susanlynn9 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In actuality, there was a time in the early days after ebay bought Paypal that they were able to freeze the verified bank accounts attached to Paypal accounts. I think it was about 6 months ago (possibly a lot longer - my memory is just not very good these days) that the rules were changed and Paypal is not permitted to do this any longer.
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