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Modern Mint Silver Proof Sets And Toning

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New Member

United States
16 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2007  01:04 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add maltuna to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I am a neophyte when it comes to numismatics, but I have to start somewhere. I apologize in advance if this very topic (modern mint silver proof sets) is taboo among real coin collectors, but I hope you'll read this and respond even if that is the case with earnest care to educate those who are not so versed in the ways of coin collecting.

So, when it comes to modern mint sets (i.e. still in the original mint packaging . . . is that the cause of the toning? hmm) ... on a coin that should not be old enough to have toning (unless it was handled with bare fingertips on the surfaces, or left in sunlight?), what is the real implications on a coin's desirability/value when that coin is toned in a natural (but not pretty) way?

For example, a silver 1999 Pennsylvania quarter where the entire bottom third of the dress of the woman on the reverse has a browning that looks like a shirt someone spilled coffee on. But nowhere else on the coin is there any browning. I suppose I should think it because it was merely a beautiful darling who had just crossed a muddy shallow river?

Or how about something else (which I think may not be toning at all) . . . an area that is, like a little foggy cloud, ruining the mirror surface of the background on the reverse of a silver 1999 Delaware quarter in a little splotch around the horse's tail, almost like a flatulent statement about me for buying such a coin. But strangely, it never starts right *at* any raised (non-mirror) surfaces, but always a little ways from them. Is this some kind of defect from the mint, or a blemish caused by handling in a strange way, or just some weird freak chemical action from environment?

I can't help but wonder, based on the shape of these different "marks" on the coin (both the browing areas I see and the ones that are "foggy" against the mirror background), and how they seem to be in relation to the frosted subjects in each coin, that they were all done by human contact. But then again, I don't know anything, so this is purely speculation. Still, it seems like either someone touched this with bare fingers (leaving oils which dulled the surface, or left it ready to react with environmental gasses?) or else they touched it with something else, but either way, it hit the high spots and then only the low spots that weren't protected by the high spots. Or so I think ?

In any case, I am not at the stage yet where I really care that these types of things are on my coins. I only care to know why they are there and learn what this meant; did I get ripped off, did I get something that is still valuable, what? I know I am an idiot, when it comes to coins, and I know that it will take time and experience, and chance encounters with those who truly know and are willing to share. I consider the money I spend (or "lose" as the case may be) to be educational.

But there is a find line. A coin that is a silver 2001 that is so browned that it seems like someone dropped it in a fire, then spilt burnt steak juice on it while setting it in a fire seems a bit too much for me to accept as far as worth my time and effort. And even some "browned" specimens seem too much for me, for a coin that is so new, and that should not be so blatantly browned in such strange and random areas. If all the coins I looked at were browned in the same spots or the same fashion, I might think it natural for the year, but when some are browned on top and some on the bottom and some on the side, and in (what seems to me in my short viewing period) completely different spots for each set I view, I wonder if any of these are "typical".

As it stands, toning I've seen on older coins can be attractive, beautiful, or just make it look. . . well . . . old, and as "it should be" ! Toning just seems to fit on older coins. But on newer mint issues, such as something made in 1999, why is it that I can find flawless perfect examples of a 2000 quarter (name your state), but when I look at possible purchases in 1999 or 2001 (both valued much higher, perhaps due to inflated market values), I cannot find anything that is "flawless", but see instances of toning or "fogging" (for lack of the correct term).

From what I've gathered from talking to others interested in coin collecting, I take it that as someone interested in ultra-modern issues that the US Mint has heavily marketed is . . . considered mercenary at best and foolish and naive at worst.

Still, I ask how toning affects the desirability of these coins because even if I am naive and foolish, this is my start, and I'm only trying to learn. Better and much older coins will surely follow. And in fact, my very first purchase wasn't a modern issue. Well, maybe some thing it was (it was actually a 1917 standing liberty type 1 quarter, but I probably got very ripped off on it, heh - once I have a camera capable of taking photos of this, which won't be any time soon, I'll post photos for your input, but for now, let's just say it seems to have some very nasty scratches that I didn't notice until I put a 10x loupe on it, but that's a story for another post).

The truth is, there is more to the beginnings of my collecting, but it was oh so amateurish and naive when I was 6 listening to my grandfather tell me of how I should save any dimes or quarters I found that had a date of 1964 or earlier. In my life to now, I've only found 3 in circulation (2 dimes, 1 quarter), and in such poor shape, they aren't worth more than the silver in them. Still, each step is . . . well, a step in the right direction, even if sometimes I take two steps back to take one step foward.

Sorry for the long winded but silly explication of . . . not much. For those who actually read it, thank you. Thank you in advance for your thoughts, comments, and constructive criticism to my questions, as well as any advice in general. I'll try to make my future posts more concise and to the point. I've wanted to ask this, however, for a while (at least since mid October). I apologize if this is not the right forum for this.

marcos
New Member
paland's Avatar
United States
34 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2007  01:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paland to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've wondered this too. Especially the "cloudiness" I have on some fairly recent coins. I too, await replies.
Pillar of the Community
Metalman's Avatar
United States
7123 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2007  03:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome to the forum .

First let me start by sayingthat mint packaging is not airtite nor is everyone of them stored in such a way that environmental conditions stay optimal for preservation of the coins inside .

The hazing is a problem and seems to originate in some process at the mint ,dirty wash improper drying or both are possible causes .

I have no problem with toning on modern coins some of it that occurs is natural and very attractive just like on the classics .

just take your time and buy the coins you like ,,there are hundreds of thousands of the modern proof coins to choose from and they will be available for a long time to come .

By the way I only collect raw coins ,,they are much less expensive to aquire and a careful and patient search will turn up some really great affordable coins .And I never worry about what someone else says concerning what I collect ,,its my collection and if I like it that is up to me ,, In reality there is no wrong way to collect ,, but there are ways to collect that are maybe a better investment if that is part of the criteria

Metalman

Bedrock of the Community
Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2007  05:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with what metalman said, the packaging doesn't have as much to do with it as the environment the packaging is left in because the packaging isn't air tight as he mentioned. Different areas of the country have different contaminations in the air and if the sets are somewhere that they are subject to that air (even if in the original packaging) that air can cause toning and sometimes it can be attractive and it seems more than not, not so attractive toning but just as classics will do it has more about where the coins live and how they are stored to how much toning they will acquire. I have left coins sitting on my desk for a couple years now and they still look about like they did when I put them there but we have a member here that can leave a morgan of the same date and mint mark on his desk for a matter of weeks and his coin will turn almost black with toning so the material the desk is made of could play as much a part in this factor as much as the chemicals in the air between his area and mine that makes the coins look so much differently. As far as any subject in numismatics being taboo, I don't think there are any taboo areas when it comes to collecting coins, you collect what you like and what you can afford and as long as you get enjoyment out of looking at the coins you have collected then the coins are doing exactly the same thing that the coins someone else may collect that may be all classic coins. It is all about what the collector likes himself and not what is popular to collect, some moderns have been a proof positive that they can be a good investment also like the 99 silver proof set you mention
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