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 Replies: 18 / Views: 9,904 |
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Valued Member
United States
356 Posts |
I am a qualified expert on this matter. First, a confession. I acquired several thousand dollars worth of fake coins on ebay in my first month of coin collecting. So my first caveat is whatever you bought it better be worth your time to pursue this matter if the seller proves uncooperative. I had $4800 on the line so it was worth it. When you have evidence beyond gut feelings that it is fake, i.e a link from the forgery network, or identical type coins; by that I mean literally and impossibly identical, sold elsewhere via ebay or other site you contact the seller and request a refund. If the coin is not shipped yet then it should be simple and the sale cancelled. However if the seller refuses and or you have the coin and they will not take it back, here is what you do. If you have the time, you can first attempt to file a dispute via ebay. However it will be lengthy and time consuming; in my experience ebay rejects it and wastes two weeks of your time. So, if ebay rejects it and or paypal, you should procede to dispute it on your credit card, which is the only way you should pay via ebay or Paypal. This process is even more time consuming, 30-60 days. If you produce documentation proving it is fake, even then you may lose this process. It will be essential that you contact your bank and insist that they require mediation via the card issuer, i.e visa or master card. Most banks resolve issues themselves and do not involve the middle man, which can be fatal to your dispute. On the two occasions that visa intervened for me I won my monies back. In the end if after your credit card company rejects your case. You have one more surefire winning solution. File a small claim as I did. You will win. ebay will go down in flames. They will bring lawyers, you will contest their speaking, the judge will agree as that is illegal for them to speak. Their unprepared paralegal will then speak and she or he will be an incompetent. The judge when given proof of forgery will rule in your favor. Most Judges will agree ebay had a duty to protect their buyers, as they advertise that they do. However, ebay will appeal. They will lose. Then they will refuse to pay the award. You will order them to appear, where the Judge, mad that his or her time has been wasted by this evil corporation will award you further damages, interest, legal fees, etc. They will ignore the judge again. They will seek to have the decision vacated by the California Supreme Court, or wherever your court is. The Supreme Court will reject them. Then they will pay. It will be one year later but in the end you will have your monies back. Don't want to go through all of this. Then don't buy coins on ebay that are worth more than ten bucks. Edited by caesar77
05/04/2015 3:03 pm
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Moderator
 United States
23731 Posts |
I'm glad you finally got your money back, but what a hassle. $4800 was a lot of money spent on fake coins. I can't help but ask, did you do any research on them before you spent that kind of money? I'm a firm believer in the old saying "Buy the Book before the Coin". With all the information available on the internet in most cases you not even need to buy the book. The information is available and free on the internet.
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Pillar of the Community
Spain
629 Posts |
Sometimes the history is quite different... My friend Juan Antonio (in ebay his nickname is morcillom) shipped several gold coins to U.K. after being paid by Paypal. After several days the buyer said that the coins hadnīt arrived so he was going to claim paypal. My friend made some consults and the coins were in the postal office but the buyer hadnīt picked them. Paypal has said that he is responsible if the buyer hasnīt the coin in his home so Paypal returned the money to the buyer... curiously that afternoon the coins were retired from the postal office. Paypal says that that is not his problem... |
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Valued Member
 United States
356 Posts |
I was an idiot. They were excellent copies, silver denarii. At the time I posted several on another forum, but I was yelled at by the owner of the forum and told to stop doing it. I was a complete novice and was burned. Some did not arrive, later to be resold by the same seller. I later confirmed several were fake. I have learned my lesson and now I operate in a totally different fashion. I had coin fever; paid for it. I am sure sellers have horror stories as well from crooked buyers. The safest way for a seller is to follow instructions and to have the coins sent registered mail signature required. Cost be damned. When I sell that is how I do it.
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Rest in Peace
United States
7075 Posts |
Interesting story. Sorry you had to go through all of that but I appreciate you sharing the information.
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Pillar of the Community
Spain
629 Posts |
You wasnīt an idiot...
You was only human, when you see an interesting coin, your brain starts to deceive you...
He starts to conceive elaborate explanations about why that "genuine" coin looks so strange and unusual...
Itīs one of the main sins, greediness jejeje
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Moderator
United States
23731 Posts |
You weren't an idiot, just new to collecting and a bit inexperienced. At least you realized they were fake and did the right thing to get your money back.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5155 Posts |
This story should be posted everywhere. Thank you for sharing, and thank you for not giving up on the hobby.
Great job taking it to the man!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4971 Posts |
wow...what a tale C77. I would say novices stay away from ebay for coins more than small change is GREAT advice. |
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New Member
United States
26 Posts |
Great advice Caesar77. If I had read this before my coin purchase on ebay, I would have stayed clear. Unfortunately, my coin fake coin situation just got worse. I contacted the seller and returned the coin. When I was at the post office, I told the woman I need tracking, so she said register international was the way for me to go. I said I needed confirmation it was delivered. She said registered mail was tracked from start to finish and I could keep track of it all the way with the registered mail number. I also insured the coin for $190. I figured any mishap had me covered. I soon realized registered international mail cannot be tracked at all. With no tracking, registered mail was a waste of money. Also, the insurance claim and everything else was just a waste as there is no way to confirm any lost mail or anything. It was being sent to the UK, so the seller can let it sit until the ebay 45 days is up knowing there is no way of tracking and keep the coin and the money. ebay will not rule in favor on disputes with no online tracking to view, so it was a disaster. I lost the money, the coin, everything. I guess my only chance would be to dispute that the coin was a fake and demand a refund from ebay and I don't think they make the buyer returned forged merchandise. The coin is on the coin forgery site, but I don't know if it is enough evidence for ebay. I have really enjoyed my first several months getting into collecting ancient coins, but this was a huge setback for me. I want way out of my comfort zone financially and got burned badly. For new people, please know that the predators are on ebay waiting and they know all the tricks. My seller has been on ebay for 6 years, had over 300 successful transactions, and I even watched the coins he sold and waited to see if the feedback was good and what the buyers said. After I kept seeing everyone pleased with their coins, I thought the guy as legit. Only now when I look at the feedback, I notice a lot of it is from the same 4-5 people several times in a row where his friends or accomplices are helping boost his ratings. If nothing else, don't buy internationally. The sellers know that with no proof, they have you over a barrel and USPS international tracking can run $50-60. Even then, packages can sit in customs for weeks unclaimed while you are dealing with ebay and they just drop by to pick up the package whenever they wish. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7066 Posts |
So sorry to hear of these all-too-common challenges. Wampdog, you are definitely sounding more and more like a wizened, wary veteran collector now. I suspect we could all show-and-tell our ancients-collecting scars. Ancient coin collectors:  Stamp collector:  |
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Valued Member
United States
69 Posts |
An instructive and informative post caesar77! It may be empowering to others. But I just want to comment on: Quote:Don't want to go through all of this. Then don't buy coins on ebay that are worth more than ten bucks. In spite of the many fake sellers, there's no need to avoid ebay. You just have to be careful. And there ARE honest sellers on ebay. Not everyone there is an evil fake seller. BUT new collector's need to take their time. Find out who the trustworthy sellers are and only buy from them. And new collector's need to put in time learning about the coins they collect. I have been seriously collecting for 19 years. In the areas that I collect I am able to spot at least the most obvious fakes. I don't pretend to be able to spot all fakes, even the experts can't always do that. But knowing your collecting area helps. Knowledge is power. Quote:For new people, please know that the predators are on ebay waiting and they know all the tricks. My seller has been on ebay for 6 years, had over 300 successful transactions, and I even watched the coins he sold and waited to see if the feedback was good and what the buyers said. After I kept seeing everyone pleased with their coins, I thought the guy as legit. Only now when I look at the feedback, I notice a lot of it is from the same 4-5 people several times in a row where his friends or accomplices are helping boost his ratings. Yes wampdog, people need to realize that 100% positive ebay feedback means little. Another thing the career fake sellers do is to give hassle free refunds. If an ebay buyer realizes their coin is a fake, the fake seller will immediately accept the return and give the buyer's money back. Almost all of these buyers will then not leave negative feedback. They're just happy to get their money back. Or they don't feel it's right to leave negative feedback since they did get their money returned. On top of that are the buyer's that don't realize their coins are fake. And they do leave positive feedback. Between these two things a career fake seller is able to maintain 100% positive feedback. |
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Valued Member
United States
356 Posts |
I advise Wampdog to dispute charge with credit card, and or paypal/ebay ASAP.
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New Member
United States
26 Posts |
Caesar, I no longer have his coin. Based on the off chance he might, like someone else said, will want to settle quickly to maintain his good rating, will pay me back when the coin does arrive. I wanted to be sure it had time to get to him. He sent to me Apr. 24ish and I got the coin May 5. I returned it May 7---so if it is same time to travel, he would get it about Tues or Wed next week. If I don't hear from him by Wed., as a last ditch effort, was going to open a dispute stating I received a forged coin and felt the seller was acting in fraudulence. I was going to send a photo of a real coin, one of the coin I was sent, as well as the one on the forgery database. Maybe a link to this forum where everone said it was an obvious fake coin too. Does this seem like a logical agenda? Also, I did try to go through paypal to stop payment and they said to speak to ebay first. I have never dealt with going to my credit card company. I paid Apr 24 and now I don't have even the bad merchandise, so I feel I have a weak argument, so I am trying to give this seller a chance to make it right. |
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Valued Member
Canada
242 Posts |
Great post Caesar and great advice. I'm clearly much more novice than you are, but worried about the same things. I've started looking at auctions more, but I have a bias, probably unfounded, that auction coins tend to be more expensive, and if you know what to look for you can get better deals on ebay. (hah...the problem of course is that I don't know what I'm looking for, in terms of fakes!). I think that this came up before but it'd be great to have some kind of fund of experts that would be willing to find or vet specific coins for a % commission (lower than the 15-20% auction fees, or whatever they are!). |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1269 Posts |
There is some very good advice here for those like me who are very new to collecting ancient coins. Thanks to all for your contributions to this helpful thread.
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Replies: 18 / Views: 9,904 |
Posted 05/04/2015 4:24 pm
