| Author |
 Replies: 9 / Views: 1,378 |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1450 Posts |
I am looking at mintage of 1908-S Double Eagle and only 22,000 were minted and yet the coin in EF condition sells for just around $3700. There are just 52,000 1909-D's and they sell for $1850 in EF. 1913-S sells has mintage of just 34,000 and sells for $1850 in EF. I understand why these coins after 1926 sell for big bucks, but it seems these earlier St. Gaudens with such low mintage are way undervalued. Am I missing something? Even 1907 high relief in EF sells for 11,000 bucks and only 12,367 were minted. Even UNC. coins of this year sell for $16,000. Considering price of a new car this is cheap for something so rare. It seems to me you could buy these coins and put them in a safe for a few years and have a tremendous investment. You have to have some cash, but people spend their money on boats and stuff that depreciates in their backyard.
|
|
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Don't bother looking at mintage figures, especially for gold coins and even more so for Saints. It's ALL about the surviving pieces since millions were melted.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5417 Posts |
Quote:
Don't bother looking at mintage figures, especially for gold coins and even more so for Saints. It's ALL about the surviving pieces since millions were melted. Indeed Brad is right. Here are the survival figures for the coins you noted Date:---------All Grades------MS-60+--------MS-65+ 1908-S---------1,316------------466-----------------50 1909-D---------3,283-----------1,200----------------27 1913-S---------5,583-----------3,083----------------37 Compare that to these post 1926 dates: Date:---------All Grades------MS-60+--------MS-65+ 1927-D-----------18---------------15-------------------8 1930-S-----------68---------------61-------------------20 Now you may understand the tremendous gap in price on these. Approx 16.4% of 1913-S $20's survive despite the low mintage of 34,000 while only 0.01% of 1927-D $20's survive despite a mintage of 180,000. Edited by zxcccxz
05/21/2015 7:03 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1748 Posts |
Also, don't go by guide values on those lower mintage dates/mintmarks. Truly quality specimens of each grade will demand higher prices, if you can find them. A nice appealing low mintage EF Saint is a bit of a conditional rarity. They can be a rare bird to find.
Most of the lower mintage Saints are in the AU to low MS range, as the coins simply did not circulate that much. They spent most of their time in European banks.
I do know the best DE's, "investment-wise", are the ones that bear two letters in repetition...CC.
Edited by DoubleEagle20
05/21/2015 7:33 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
1450 Posts |
This sort of situation explains to me the relative value of 1934-S Peace dollar and why it is so expensive in higher grades compared even to 1928 coin. I did understand that the 1934-S Peace dollar was melted down. The mintage is not that low, but the actual surviving coins are low. What method do collectors use to determine survival rate of coins with relatively high mintage but actual scarcity? If there are only about 1300 surviving 1908-S Saint-Gaudens the Red Book value is screwy. The actual value of this coin should be in 5 or 6 figures I would think. How hard would it be to find these coins? Red Book says that most of the double eagles from the 1920's were melted down. This is a big flaw in this guide. I suppose that hard core collectors hold onto these coins when they find them and relatives fight over them in probate since we know what horders some coin collectors are present company excepted, of course. You guys have the brain trust on this information. I appreciate your knowledge. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1748 Posts |
The Red Book is indeed inaccurate on its historical assessment of the 1920's DE's. A better book is Q David Bowers "Guide Book to Double Eagles". The coins heavily exported from the 1920's to Europe and thus are now commonly available are 1920-P, 1922-P, 1923-P, 1923-D, 1924-P, 1925-P, 1926-P, 1927-P and 1928-P. The others of the 1920's were kept by the Treasury as backing for gold certificates and thus were melted in 1937. A handful of those highly melted issues did escape to Europe and are now worth signicant premiums. We have a man by the name of Paul Wittlin to thank for their repatriation. In 1932, you could actually DE's from the Treasury....the list was the reverse of the pattern we see now. The ones exported weren't on the list, but the now melted coins were available for ordering...including 1927-D! Edited by DoubleEagle20
05/21/2015 8:29 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
861 Posts |
All of the branch mint Saints from 1922 on (except the 1923's) have been subject to heavy melting and foreign export. They are certainly scarcer than any of the other earlier low mintage coins (except the 1907 HR and 1908-s). They are also extremely risky to invest in. More and more of these late date branch mint Saints are finding the light of day in Europe, thus, increasing their populations. I regularly get these late branch mint coins and I sell them immediately. Their scarcity is slowly waning. The 1908-s is the true sleeper in the series. The 1907 HR is much more common than the 1908-s due to many factors ie HR's were unique and saved as were all 1st year of issue 1907 Saints. Branch mint Saints circulated much more than the Phillys.
The reason the 1908-s Saint is "under-valued" is because the Saint series is simply uncollectible. There are just too many rare coins in the series, making it only accessible to the extremely rich. Thus, the 1908-s Saint has not gained the fame it deserves. JMO
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1450 Posts |
Just look at the 1920-S and 1921 both of which go for over a hundred grand in MS-63 condition. Their mintage (for what it is worth) is much more than the 1913-S, 1915, 1913-d and others, yet there it is for you. I won't pay $100,000 for a coin unless I know for sure it will be worth more in ten years, considerably more. When you get to those numbers it is a game for .01% of wealthy investors. It is a shame because the Saint-Gaudens is a beautiful coin and rich in cultural and historical value.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1748 Posts |
A good example of the craziness with Saints is 1929, population estimates are well beyond 1000 and yet the coin goes for $40k plus in auctions.  Prime example of an overvalued coin. Frankly, I won't touch a high melt issue 1920's with a ten foot pole. Too much chance of a hoard coming out of the European banks and the subsequent price drop. Edited by DoubleEagle20
05/21/2015 11:21 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1450 Posts |
You know those quarter eagle Indian Head gold coins form 1909-1929 are really unique and weirdly attractive coins. They are also affordable. I would not mind collecting either the quarter or half eagle. They have a very short few years when they were minted and seem to be inexpensive enough for that a person could fill a book. There are just two of the Indian Head half eagles that are really on the high side. I imagine the 1929's were melted down.
|
| |
Replies: 9 / Views: 1,378 |
|
Posted 05/21/2015 6:59 pm
