1916 Standing Liberty & 1901-S Barber Quarters

Well, are the coins counterfeit or just the slabs? One would involve the Secret Service - not that they'd act on two coins - and the other wasn't even illegal until six months ago when the HPA was modified in December. My thinking is, the only possible action would probably come from PCGS itself, and that's who I'd be talking to about it.

I'd contact PCGS first, they have a team of lawyers to go after fraudsters and scammers just like this, let them do the work, as it's their reputation that is being hurt. David Hall has said they do go after these guys.

WOW!

UPDATE: So I just go off the phone with Kathleen at PCGS and reported the counterfeit PCGS slabs. I explained how I was contacted, how the coins where presented, and what evidence I had that showed intent to sell counterfeit slabs (and probably coins), and what photo evidence that I had.

She literally just told me that there was "nothing" that they could do. My response was that I was surprised by this answer and that this would leave others vulnerable to being scammed out of potentially tens of thousands of dollars. When I questioned her initial response, she told me to please hold. Kathleen then came back after a minute of so and told me to email the information I had to info@pcgs.com, but that there was really nothing they could do.

I have to admit this response blew me away! She was completely unconcerned.

I'm going to email the info now, but unfortunately it doesn't seem like they care or are going to do much of anything. Just wanted to keep everyone updated.

Per PCGS 2008 Counterfeit Alert:

http://www.pcgs.com/News/Counterfeit-Pcgs-Holders
Copied below, emphasis at the end, seems like they just don't care much about the people getting screwed buying them, there really is not much they can do other than go after the coins when the enter the country, or are sold here. The pat answer is send all your coins back in to get them reholder in the new secure holders (at substantial costs to you again), only buy from registered PCGS/PNG dealers, get a guarantee in writing from the seller, be vigilant, spend more money with us!

David Hall discussing this situation when the fake slabs first came to light and their successful shut down of one dealer selling them.




COUNTERFEIT PCGS HOLDERS

- March 27, 2008
In recent days, counterfeit coins in counterfeit PCGS slabs have begun to appear on ebay, the online auction site. All of the counterfeit coins/holders seen so far are coming out of China. Alert members of the PCGS Message Boards were the first to notify PCGS of the counterfeit coins/holders.

The coins themselves range from poor-quality counterfeits to well-made fakes. The counterfeit PCGS holders are well-executed, but with minor differences from a genuine holder. PCGS anticipates that authentic coins will eventually be placed into counterfeit PCGS holders in the future, perhaps with elevated grades and/or inappropriate designators (Full Bell Lines, Prooflike, etc.), although none have been seen to date.

The on-line PCGS Certificate Verification is a method for confirming that a particular certificate number matches the information in the PCGS database, but the counterfeiters are aware of this detection method and are now using valid certificate numbers (see below).

PCGS has contacted U.S. governmental agencies, including the FBI, U.S. Customs, the Secret Service, and US Postal authorities, to enlist their assistance in pursuing enforcement or legal remedies against these counterfeiters. Also, PCGS is a member of ebay's CCW Group, which monitors ebay for fraudulent listings and asks ebay to discontinue auctions of suspicious coins and/or suspend violators.

PCGS has called for ebay to stop accepting listings of any rare coins from Chinese sellers. ebay recently pulled several auctions of counterfeit coins/holders at the urging of PCGS.

PCGS urges consumers not to purchase rare coins from Chinese sellers on ebay. While legitimate, authentic coins exist in China, the plethora of fakes and fraudulent listings on ebay increase the likelihood that coins purchased from Chinese sellers will be counterfeit.

The PCGS Guarantees of Grade and Authenticity do not apply to counterfeit holders, but PCGS has a strong interest in assisting consumers in actions against any fraudulent sellers.

Sufficient differences exist between genuine and counterfeit holders such that PCGS experts can easily identify fake holders. Consumers are cautioned that coins that appear to be underpriced may be counterfeit. PCGS urges all consumers to deal only with reputable sellers who are willing to stand behind the coins they sell.

PCGS recommends consumers consider the following any time they make a coin purchase:

Verify the certificate number using the PCGS Cert Verification program at http://www.pcgs.com/cert/
See limitations above
Avoid purchasing rare coins from ebay sellers in China.
Investigate the legitimacy of the seller (examine feedback; avoid low feedback sellers; find out how long the seller has been in business; do they have a good reputation?; do you have legal recourse in case of a problem?).
Make sure you have a money-back guarantee that is enforceable (for example, credit card companies will often assist in cases of fraud).
Realize that "bargains" in numismatics are usually too good to be true.
If you have a question about a particular coin, be sure to have it checked out by an Authorized PCGS Dealer or by PCGS before the expiration of any guarantees.
Request an immediate refund if the coin you purchased turns out to be a counterfeit.
The following list of coins and certificate numbers have been seen in fake PCGS holders:

China (1916) Silver Dollar, Y-332, Cert #10712316 (valid)
China (1923) Silver Dollar, K-677, Cert #11354470 (valid)
China (1923) Silver Dollar, K-678, Cert #11285683 (valid)
China (1923) Silver Dollar, Y-336.1, Cert #13835186 (valid)
China Republic (1912) 20 Cents, Cert #21981173 (invalid)
China (1916) Gold Dollar, Pn-44, Cert # 11072163 (invalid)
China (1923) Gold Dollar, Tsao Kun, K-677, Cert #11354470 (invalid spec, valid cert.used above)
US 1858-O Half Dollar, Cert #03884338 (valid)
US 1800 Silver Dollar, Cert #03859118 (valid)
US 1795 Silver Dollar, Off-Center Bust, Cert #22030856 (valid)
Mexico 1761-MoMM 8 Reales, Cert #05763936 (valid)

"Valid" means that the correct information shows up under Cert Verification

To alert PCGS to any offerings of counterfeit PCGS holders, please notify PCGS Customer Service at info@pcgs.com.

What this means to me is that you should buy from dealers who have a reputation to guard. Everything can be faked. Everything about ebay makes me want to puke. You see a photo of a coin and you can "judge for yourself the condition". How can you truly judge condition from a photo? Does it show you the rim? What angel is that photo taken from? All these things make me want to avoid buying expensive coins off the internet. Now we see the slabs are faked and the organization that is supposed to stand behind it reputation does not give a crap. I don't know what to think.

I agree with the other person that posted regarding the font on the slabs.. Thats the first thing I noticed when I opened the page to check out this thread....Thats a lot of money involved here and I wouldn't trust it without having a 2nd or even 3rd opinion before purchasing.. Something seems real fishy.

That would be a futile effort. A book on how to detect counterfeits would be much more useful.