| Author |
 Replies: 24 / Views: 8,224 |
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1442 Posts |
I have seen a lot of discussion on these. Many people feel that these coins are "damaged" and should have no premium in terms of value. But most JOP coins offered in the latest TOREX June 2015 auction went for $2000+ and their value continues to increase.  While the historical argument for the interest in these coins is strong, I would propose another argument that I haven't seen anyone else discuss. What separates the JOP counterstamp from all the other victorian counterstamped coins, is the fact that these were done using a method that spared the obverse from any damage. As far as I can tell, from reading the 3-4 articles that have been written on these, no one knows exactly how Joseph Oliva Patenaude accomplished this, or what his particular technique of counterstamping these dollars was, but I think it sets these coins apart from other counterstamped coins. From personal experience, I can say that both the historical background, as well as the mysterious technique of how these coins were counterstamped without damaging the obverse, is what attracts me to these coins. As a disclaimer, I am in the process of building a complete JOP counterstamp collection with all the possible varieties from the 4 different punches. If anyone ever comes across a 1948 JOP, please let me know  |
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
6478 Posts |
We're they only dollars? Because there was no 1948 dollar. Oohh. You know what. You are in Canada. Woops...
I love counterstamps. IMHO I would prefer to have a love token 1854 quarter than a regular one.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3049 Posts |
CV: as soon as I read the title of this thread I thought if anyone knows anything about this it would be you...
I honestly love what you have said about these coins and unfortunately I have never had the privilege of holding a JOP in hand to have a good look at it... however I sincerely hope that you one day publish an article of your findings and perhaps show us all some pics of the gems that you possess!
|
|
Valued Member
Canada
247 Posts |
I have never seen a 1948 but I do Own a early 1935. Whats the approx value of the 35 in fine to extra fine condition?
|
|
Valued Member
Canada
247 Posts |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
4911 Posts |
I would think the reason for no obverse damage is the position of the stamping, on all effigies it is on a spot where there is a raised area on the obverse. on KG V it is in his robe area which is higher relief, on KG VI it is his neck area which again is higher relief, and on the few QE II examples it is once again in the neck area which is...you guessed it, a higher relief. combine that those areas would allow for a deeper punch and that the J.O.P. counterstamps weren't that deep from what I assume and we have minimal or no damage to the obverse. if the counterstamps were in say the outer northern lights areas where field is on the obverse we would probably see some raised metal depending on the type of punch(T 1, T 2, T 3). I think I have said it before but nickel nubber, that coin doesn't sit right with me...
as far as damage vs. collectability etc.....I am not decided but I am leaning towards damage.
Feel free to call me Will.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1192 Posts |
They don't do anything for me.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
4911 Posts |
thanks for the thread by the way, I thought we were over due for this conversation.
oh, also, most counterstamps were larger and caused huge or significant damage while the J.O.P. stamp was small to begin with, add to the fact that it is on a huge hunk of silver....
Feel free to call me Will.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
Canada
21606 Posts |
I think we had an earlier discussion on another thread about whether or not this was a counterfeit or legitimate Silver Dollar.
As far as I know, no definitive answer was established.
I would not want to determine a value without knowing for sure.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
972 Posts |
As a long time collector of Canadian silver dollars I have always had a interest in JOP dollars but have been nervous about investing big money for one even if certified. What I have been told by several reputable coin dealers is one of the four punches is not accountable and is in the possession of a Vancouver coin dealer. If true then it would be possible to create all the JOP dollars you wanted with possession of this punch. As ICCS does certify them it is possible they don't certify dollars of this punch. Again this is just what I have heard so you can make your own judgement. Definitely a unique dollar with a interesting story.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Taiwan
606 Posts |
You can search this forum for JOP and other threads concerning this topic. Also if you are a member of the RCNA you can search past issues for articles about the JOP Dollars. This is a great resource and well worth the price of admission to the RCNA. Some will argue that they are PMD and not collectible.They are in the minority. I agree they are PMD as all Counterstamped coins are but they are very collectible. Counterstamped coins offer a look into the past and the times they were issued. For me it is about the merchant, economy at the time, the people, politcs involved & etc. Each Counterstamped coin has its own story. |
|
Valued Member
Canada
247 Posts |
Thanx for your concern guys, as I stated in an earlier thread this coins history (collector) was from the Nelson area, he was a forest ranger for the Province. I am told that the coin was personally given to him by Joseph.
What is it that doesn't sit right?
Also please look and compare the coins type one (1) stamp with known others, they are identical.Please have another closer look if you have time. I can load other pics if needed.
Thanx again
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1442 Posts |
nickle nubber...nothing wrong with your JOP...its the rarer type 1 punch. I own two, yours is the 4th example I've seen.
Not sure which of the 4 punches is the rarest. I've had the hardest time finding Type 4, with type 2 being the most common.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
840 Posts |
I bygone years, clever merchants would counterstamp their name
or business on coins and tokens. The coin or token would be
returned into circulation. This was a great way of advertisement.
It was free, and the coin or token would pass through many hands.
Newspapers and poster boards get thrown away. Money keeps on
circulating and the name recognization keeps on advertising.
doug
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Taiwan
606 Posts |
There is a very good reference work on Countermarked coins by Gregory Brunk. It was published in 2003. It is titled :Merchant and Privately Countermarked Coins: It is 476 pages of information on all the known Countermarks issued by merchants of the US, Canada,& Mexico. Originally priced at
about $80, it will cost you about $200 now. Not cheap but if Countermarks float your boat it is
a must have.
Edited by Everest
07/06/2015 01:26 am
|
|
Valued Member
Canada
247 Posts |
Thanx Canadian Varieties for your opinion, I know it is type 1 and one of the very early ones at that . Any Idea on current Value ?
|
| |
Replies: 24 / Views: 8,224 |
Posted 07/05/2015 4:03 pm
