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Chinese Stock Market Crash = Little Effect On Metals

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Bedrock of the Community

United States
10284 Posts
 Posted 07/08/2015  8:30 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add TNG to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
You would think that the Chinese stock market dropping around a whopping 30% today that gold would have gone up more than just 3 bucks?
Seems like the old days of markets up - metals down and vise versa doesn't happen anymore.
Metals are so cheap, they are no longer a hedge against inflation.
Someday metals will have to rise good again. Platinum prices are ridiculous as they are historically higher than gold and now is about 10% lower. These prices may have room to drop under 1000 per oz but silver is almost heading for under 15. That is insane. We have 1978-ish prices again if you take into consideration inflation. Maybe even lower.
Heck, I might sell stocks just to go buy silver pretty soon.
Pillar of the Community
oh my florin's Avatar
Australia
1006 Posts
 Posted 07/09/2015  01:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oh my florin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Chinese Stock market fell due to massive suspensions of trading until Europe decides what is happening with Greece not due to actual falls in profit or anything else with these companies. It is more so just investors speculating on what is happening in Europe as has been happening in other countries such as Australia who fell $30 billion in the first day after the referendum. Overall I must congratulate the Chinese on the proactive measures to prevent massive speculative trades and withdrawal of capital which would wreck havok with their developing finance sector. In short a short term pain for long term safety/gain.
Edited by oh my florin
07/09/2015 01:14 am
Pillar of the Community
fistfulladirt's Avatar
United States
4333 Posts
 Posted 07/09/2015  06:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fistfulladirt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, on paper the metals prices are cheap.
When I listen to LED ZEPPELIN...so do my neighbors...
Roll hunting since '77
Dirt fishing since '72
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 07/09/2015  1:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
China will pay DEARLY for not letting the market run its course. Nothing they are doing now will stop the market from correcting and going lower.

China will find in the future that their capital outflows will increase and their foreign direct invest will drop in the future as a result of trying to let their stock exchanges run their normal course.

The Chinese government is running scared and has absolutely no clue or idea how to handle whats happening in their markets, they are in complete panic and what they are doing now is going to come to hurt and haunt them big time.
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oh my florin's Avatar
Australia
1006 Posts
 Posted 07/09/2015  10:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oh my florin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I disagree with you yup7676 China is very much in control of their economy the government is exceptionally proactive and knowledgeable about economic policies particularly considering how they are growing and them going to out produce the US in only a matter of years.

The US on the other hand has absolutely no control over their economy due to their liberalist governance which contributed immeasurably to the start of the GFC, the collapse of many financial firms and the governments inaction towards fixing any form of issue before them.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 07/09/2015  10:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would say that this event and the major upcoming pain upon China is going to set China back quite a bit and their fake communistic paradise is going to come crashing down as they face the wrath of the Chinese people for trying to artificially control markets and not let them run their course.

The Chinese government is showing the entire world right how just how inept and scared their are, how embarrassing for them.
Valued Member
TomSwift's Avatar
China
171 Posts
 Posted 07/10/2015  12:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TomSwift to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I live in China and this bubble and their response is classic Chinese behaviour. Superficial appearance is everything in China so as long as they prop the market up to get the numbers higher, they will continue to ignore the proven folly of a planned economy. Where I work, the roof has been leaking for nine years but they spend all the money on the gardens and the new exterior paint jobs.

The government really has no control, other than by using brute force. Everyone local I talk to dreams of getting the heck out of China if they can.

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oh my florin's Avatar
Australia
1006 Posts
 Posted 07/10/2015  01:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oh my florin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
yup7676 what upcoming pain is coming up for China? I have studdied economics for 3 years and am about to start my Second year of University Economics and absolutely nothing would support that statement of yours. I am getting a feeling here that your strong liberalist principles are distorting your judgement in this arguement as there is no actual economic backing for your statement.

If China is inept for controlling markets to better the economy please tell me how a free market economy is working for the United States with specific detail on the GFC?

For bonus points explain how the US Free Market went about preventing rampant speculation particularly in the case of Enron?
Edited by oh my florin
07/10/2015 01:58 am
Valued Member
TomSwift's Avatar
China
171 Posts
 Posted 07/10/2015  02:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TomSwift to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The US does not have a free market. The government intervened by pushing banks to provide loans to unqualified borrowers and then again stepped in to bail out companies that should have failed, which is what happens in a free market.
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oh my florin's Avatar
Australia
1006 Posts
 Posted 07/10/2015  02:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oh my florin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well if the US is not a free market then what country would be?

I would love to see how the government pushed banks to provide loans to unqualified borrowers and then on sell those loans to other companies. Also if the government didn't intervene in the market what in the world would the US banking sector look like when a run on the bank makes them insolvent?

I think you have misunderstood the concept of a free market, Just because a government may intervene in a market doesn't instantly make it a planned market. A free market is one where the government doesn't intervene as actively as a planned economy e.g. pricing, qty produced etc.
Valued Member
TomSwift's Avatar
China
171 Posts
 Posted 07/10/2015  7:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TomSwift to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, the USA ranks 12 on a list of economic freedom.
http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

As for the government involvement in the subprime mortgage meltdown, it is not hard to find information about that.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business...isis/249903/

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oh my florin's Avatar
Australia
1006 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2015  05:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oh my florin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow that must mean they are a planned economy then with your reasoning. The second part is actually rather stupid, they call it micro credit which is very successful. In short there is a MAJOR difference between loaning to people below the median wage and loaning money to people that can't be repaid. Overall that post barely even merits a response.
Valued Member
TomSwift's Avatar
China
171 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2015  2:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TomSwift to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I suggest you read the book, Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt. A basic introduction to the dangers of Keynesian economics and government intervention in the economy.

As for your second comment, I am truly baffled. Nowhere in that article is micro-credit mentioned. Micro credit has absolutely nothing to do at all with the ideas in the article I posted and I am befuddled as to how you confused giving loans to third-world women to the US government setting up Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac and forcing banks to give mortgages to people under the median income level.
Edited by TomSwift
07/12/2015 2:06 pm
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oh my florin's Avatar
Australia
1006 Posts
 Posted 07/13/2015  06:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oh my florin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I suggest you attend any University or Financial institution outside the USA to successfully understand any sort of economic principle. By the way I have read many books on economic principles not only Keynsian but also Classical, Neo Classical, Monetary and Fiscal economics along with a few fringe economics concerning extreme liberalist economics (serves as a pretty funny side of comedy from real economics.)

Seriously you thereby have no idea of the concept of micro credit then. Micro credit is loaning smaller amounts of money to people under the median income level (in your case if anyone under the median income level was denied a mortgage 49% of your population would not have housing.)

Please learn economics first before you try to respond to my post as even a person who has studied economics for one or two weeks would point out the blatant failings of your argument.

Anyway okay take out government intervention in an economy and see how it goes. Considering the USA is crippled by it's democratic incompetence which is fuelled primarily by institutions and groups (extreme liberalist groups) who care far more about profits than the actual wellbeing of not only that economy but also the people (Guns associations which are also a joke in most law courses in the world out side the US.)
Valued Member
TomSwift's Avatar
China
171 Posts
 Posted 07/13/2015  11:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TomSwift to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Micro credit - An extremely small loan given to impoverished people to help them become self employed. - Wikipedia

Can you please point out for me a reference as to micro credit being mortgages to people under the median income level?

Even the Grameen Bank defines Micro credit as "Microcredit programmes extend small loans to very poor people for self-employment projects that generate income, allowing them to care for themselves and their families."

Denying a mortgage means people would not have housing? Wow. I will have to point that out to my landlord. People that can't afford a house should not buy a house. Basic economics. If I can't afford something, I don't buy it. But then again, I have not learned economics yet (your words) so I should just go and ask the government to take care of me and to bail me out whenever I refuse to do basic mathematics.

Anyway, I'm done. I should know better than to debate a second-year university student online who has all the answers and chooses to belittle anyone who does not agree with his socialist leanings.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2015  2:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Again, I repeat myself-

The Chinese stock market is simply correcting itself, it has had a spectacular run. IF you bought early in the uptrend, you still are sitting on huge profits. Furthermore, China's market did not crash NOR has what has happened there impacted any of the worlds global finances.

Finally, these faulty attempts to slow down the selling in the market are going to back fire on China and going forward, China's attempts to allow the free markets to work themselves is going to prolong the pain AND china is sending the entire globe the message that if one invests money in china, we might end up changing the rules and that is not and will not set will with the entire world which China needs DEARLY.

No one can control an economy and you really should throw out your textbooks out. If you havent learned this yet you will soon enough.

Long live free markets the markets such as the ones found in the USA
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