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Replies: 52 / Views: 6,085 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts |
@Groszy Quote: Back the dollar with gold and silver again, inflation is killed...basically forever. This is the only true and real solution. But the Fed will never give up its hold over the (world) economy by being able to print as much as they want at any time they want. There are too many people involved who have too much power. They ignore history that teaches every nation to use fiat currency will have a crash. JFK tried to get rid of their power with the red seal bills that were issued. We know what happened. Was there a connection? Only the people responsible know.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2589 Posts |
I've stated this before when the subject has come up but i'll say it again. Eliminating the cent is not in the best interest of the nation, once you start eliminating low value denominations it historically causes inflationary fear in the currency and is in effect a de-facto devaluation. Rather than eliminating denominations to "save" money, the real solution is to fix the underlying problem which is the governments ludicrous inflationary policy. If the cent goes, then so will the nickel soon after, once the nickel goes, so will the quarter, until eventually a dejure revaluation will have to occur.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2805 Posts |
Quote: once you start eliminating low value denominations it historically causes inflationary fear in the currency Do you have a source for this significant assertion?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2589 Posts |
Take a look through the Standard Catalog of World Paper Money and the Standard Catalog of World Coins, you'll notice that once denominations are culled from a currency, revaluation follows. Mexico, Brazil, France, Argentina, Germany, Zimbabwe, ect.
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Pillar of the Community
1325 Posts |
Quote: Do you have a source for this significant assertion? (see Japan) Yen is the US Dollar for Japan. they removed all the lower denominations of Sen (like US cents) and their smallest currency now is the 1 Yen coin, which it pretty much like a penny since their lowest bill is 1000¥. now look at the value compared to a US cent, and 1000 of those is $10, so just comparing the currency their lowest bill is $10 with $5, being their highest coin. Now the ¥ is fixed at 460¥ to $1 USD currently, but if you compare prices of things 56,000¥ is what you expect to pay for say a printer ink cartride for a low-brow printer, which would be about $30 in the US. so 3000 cents. (don't get me wrong, this isn't the actual price for an ink cartidge there, but most things I know prices for there, I can't quantify with prices here in the US, Assume its a video game or something if you want instead of an ink cartridge.) So 3000 US cents buys what 56000 yes buys. Why does Japan still make the 1¥ coin then? To stop inflation as best as they could prior to the dixation to the USD. Also consider that 1¥ still has buying power because of the diversity in Japan culture. Imagine if you will Akihabara being like say Atalanta, Tokyo being like New York, things will be higher price, but out in Osaka, would be like the middle of Iowa. So in New York State you have places you expect to pay $1000 per sq foot per month to rent a home or apartment, in Iowa you might pay $2 per sq foot per month for the same amount of space. So in those places the 1¥ coin has plenty of buying power compared to Tokyo. The problem in the Us is that it doesn't have the economical diversity since so many big companies want flat rates for EVERYONe aorund the country, it kills the potential to keep the cent with buying power in places that are not New York State, because they much reach up to the price standards of things in New York State. 1990 DC has a pack of cigarettes priced at $8, Williamsburg Virgina they were $2, and Bourbon Street New Orleans, that same pack was $5. It was about the same for a medium drink from McDonald's. Would you have me believe the US is worse off that Japan? Inflation is bad sure, but when they got rid of their "cents" (sen) things went through the roof and their "dollar" became the "cent". Imagine the same happening in the US. fear, and math were the driving force for that inflation beause there was no way to take less that the smallest denomination. This is why I fight so hard to get people to understand why you need the 1-cent coin, because so many people fear the simple math, it will lead to the same thing, and when all the "cent" coins are gone, all that will be left is the dollar, and the prices will ahve to rise in order to have variation in prices at all. Imagine soft drinks for example. a can soda costing $1 would mean a six-pack, fridgepack of 12 or 18, would need to cost accordingly for their "value" compared to the single can. so $12 for a 12 pack of Pepsi? Beer is cheaper, might as well drink beer then right? When the option is removed to charge less, then the price of everything has to go up to follow suit so that whoever makes it gets their value that the feel is greater than another product. Minimum wage would no longer be even fixable to make it a living wage with how messed up the economy is in this world. Again, the blinders on people who don't have to use these forms of money are preventing them from seeing the full picture. Also, how is Greece doing now with the drastic change in costs compared to other countries?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
997 Posts |
I think you have it backwards, it isn't the removal of a denomination or two that causes a currency revaluation, the removal is an effect of the revaluation. With the steady creep of inflation, caused by many factors well beyond the scope of this forum, reduction in purchase power is inevitable. The removal of the cent and possibly the 5-cent coins are not without precedence in the US anyway. The Half Cent is long gone and the cent itself has gone through a size reduction as well as a composition change. The 5 cent coin was once silver. The cent is just not a sustainable coin any longer. Unless the dollar is revalued at least by a factor of 10 it will never be. Removal of the cent will not cause inflation, rather inflation causes the cent to be useless in and of itself. The currencies you mention as revalued were all unstable ones in crisis mode and revaluation was not caused by removal of small value coins. Replacing the smaller bills with coins also does not cause inflation, it just makes good common sense. Keeping things at the status quo is mostly for nostalgia and special interests.
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Pillar of the Community
1325 Posts |
That being said, if the USA decided to remove denominations from its currency, dont you think the world would demand a reason or to be recalculation alongside the remaining USD currencies?
Things happen these days in the blink of an eye, not a 3 month trip across the ocean, then a week to discuss, another 3 month trip back and so on so that it takes a year for thing to be worked out.
People will know instantly, ALL other governments, and the economists of those countries will want to see where they stand against the dollar when it loses denominations.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2805 Posts |
Quote: fear, and math were the driving force for that inflation beause there was no way to take less that the smallest denomination. Also there was something called "World War II" that had just finished up, but that probably wasn't nearly as important as the fact that they stopped making low-valued coins. Quote: Also consider that 1¥ still has buying power because of the diversity in Japan culture. And here I had the impression that Japan was one of the most homogenous countries on Earth. Quote: Also, how is Greece doing now with the drastic change in costs compared to other countries? How is Greece doing with its super-useful 1 and 2 euro cents? As long as they keep producing them, they can't fail. (Meanwhile, the Netherlands and Finland, having eliminated those two low denominations, are now internationally renowned for their financial instability.) Quote: I think you have it backwards, it isn't the removal of a denomination or two that causes a currency revaluation, the removal is an effect of the revaluation. ^ basically this entire thread
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Valued Member
United States
223 Posts |
"Unlike the wasteful $1 bill, which must be shredded and sent to the landfill every 22 months, the $1 coin lasts for 30 years and is 100% recyclable."
Uh, how do they know how long the current golden dollar coins last? They haven't been in circulation for anywhere near 30 years.
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Valued Member
United States
223 Posts |
I don't like the idea of getting rid of the dollar coin. I don't want to have 20 heavy coins in my pocket when I can have 20 lightweight bills in my wallet. This would also be bad for those who make their money in tips (bartenders, servers, strippers) having to carry 200 $1 coins home every night. The current $1 coins look fine in BU condition but once they get circulated at all they look disgusting. Getting rid of all coins less than $1 except for the dime is the dumbest idea I've heard of in a long time. Somebody said that restructuring the bills and coins would require businesses to reconfigure their cash drawers. Do you have any idea how much that would cost? It wouldn't help anybody except for the cash drawer manufacturers. The size of the cash drawer itself would probably need to be changed, costing businesses billions of dollars. The only things I would change are switching the penny back to copper, redesigning the obverse of the nickel (the ugliest coin I've ever seen), reverting to the old eagle quarter, making a large dollar coin again, and changing the $5, $10, $20, $50, and $100 to their prior attractive designs rather than the ugly current designs, and bringing back the $500 bill and maybe even a $1000 bill.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
997 Posts |
Quote:
Uh, how do they know how long the current golden dollar coins last? They haven't been in circulation for anywhere near 30 years. The estimate is based on coins in general. In fact that estimate might be a little light. It is common to find coins from the mid 1960's in circulation today, some 45-50 years in age. Heck, as a collector I toss back nickels from the 50's if they are well worn. And for he who asked: the elimination of a small denomination like the 1 and 5-cent coins or bills like the $1 or $2, do not affect the value of the other denominations nor the currency itself. A dollar is still worth a dollar, whether it is metal, plastic, paper or binary.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5828 Posts |
Not to mention the SBA dollar has been around for over 30 years...
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote: I don't want to have 20 heavy coins in my pocket when I can have 20 lightweight bills in my wallet. So carry 10 lightweight twos. No one says you have to carry 20 dollar coins. Quote: This would also be bad for those who make their money in tips (bartenders, servers, strippers) having to carry 200 $1 coins home every night. And just how many of those people actually carry 200 dollar notes home? I would bet most exchange them for larger denominations, and hey I bet they could do that with the dollar coins too. Quote: Somebody said that restructuring the bills and coins would require businesses to reconfigure their cash drawers. Do you have any idea how much that would cost? It wouldn't help anybody except for the cash drawer manufacturers. Actually they don't have to change the drawers, just rearrange the contents some. There is no reason to change the drawers themselves. Almost every drawer is ether 4 or 5 slots. Today if you have a 4 slot drawer it is typically filled with cent, five cent, dime and quarter, 1, 5, 10 and 20. Get rid of the cent and dollar note and it becomes five cent, dime, quarter and dollar coin, 2, 5, 10, and 20. And the second arrangement actually allow more money in the drawer with less weight. (50 dollars in dollar coins weighs less than 20 dollars in quarters, and 100 dollar notes can be replaced with 100 twos.) A five slot drawer can be set up the same way way and still leave a slot for rolls and checks etc. So cost to replace their drawers is zero.
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Moderator
 United States
188660 Posts |
Conder101, nalaberong, and n9jig... FOR THE WIN!  One additional comment... Quote: Back the dollar with gold and silver again, inflation is killed...basically forever. Not possible. There is not enough gold in the world to back a fraction of the US economy, let alone the world economy.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts |
It is interesting how many people who have never experienced a change like this believe they have all the answers. Especially when they won;t research and find the facts of what really happened in Canada. Instead they post hypothetical ideas which work on paper, but have proven not to work. Quote:
I don't want to have 20 heavy coins in my pocket when I can have 20 lightweight bills in my wallet. ..... So carry 10 lightweight twos. No one says you have to carry 20 dollar coins.
This is not even close to practical When you go shopping at 5 different places where everything has a price in which larger bills are used, you get five stores where you have to take the time and bother to keep sorting change to pay so you don;t end up with tons of it. The truth is the added inconvenience is not practiced and people end up with too much change. This is reality folks. The Canadians on the forum verified it - check the old posts. Someone suggested just carrying two dollar bills instead of a bunch of coins. Um... read back a few posts. The Canadians always, readily used a $2.00 bill. When the Loonie came out the dollar became pocket changed prices raised accordingly, and they were then forced to... guess what... a Twoonie. So guess what? And the cycle continues. Those who refuse to study history are doomed to repeat its mistakes. Case in point.
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Replies: 52 / Views: 6,085 |
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