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Pocket Change In A Plastic World

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mikepellerin's Avatar
United States
16 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2015  11:32 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add mikepellerin to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
My paycheck is delivered monthly to my bank.

I never have to withdraw money to pay for anything, I just swipe my card.

Now with Applepay and Andriodpay, I can just point my phone and click.

I have not used money, actual bills or change, in nearly 6yrs.

I know I'm not alone.

Do you think the Mint may ever begin to realize that coins and bills are not even being traded much, and begin to negate their usage?
New Member
United States
14 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2015  12:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TallTitan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is a very good question for discussion, and I'll voice my Two Cents. :) Please keep the following in mind when reviewing my thoughts: I work in IT, have to work with IT Security on a regular basis, and am part of the younger generation that is notably "plastic happy" when it comes to payment.

I think "negate" is a strong word. Having consulted to the U.S. Government, I can tell you that an Act of Congress would be required to make such a drastic change, and even then the debate around it would likely be on par with what is surrounding the US Postal Service. The U.S. Mint wouldn't decide this act on their own...it would be like 500-1000 individuals suddenly saying their work isn't valuable...and that is definitely not the mindset of a federal employee.

But I take a step back even further. I pay with coins and bills on a regular basis, especially when I travel, and while the use of plastic is very pervasive, I think there is a notable number of "old school" folks out there as well. Each time you swipe your debit card, you open yourself up to a risk of your information being fraudulently compromised. Sure, Payment Card Industry (PCI) Standards exist to protect your card information, but your information will never be 100% protected. From hidden card swipes to software and hardware exploitation (such as getting your card information from the database it is stored in after the swipe takes place), there are various ways to get to your information. Even though I protect myself as best I can, I had to recently protect against my card from being fraudulently used all the way over in Japan on a U.S. military base (I've never been to Japan). Sure, you can resolve the issue and sometimes do it quickly, but it's still a headache.

I would personally recommend against swiping cards for anything less than $10 due to the risk you open yourself up to from the frequency of such transactions, but that is just a personal recommendation. If you swipe regularly, I would recommend keeping a VERY close (such as daily) check on your banking account balance, and ALWAYS choose the "Credit" option if you can so that the system you are working with can't get your PIN number.
Edited by TallTitan
09/05/2015 12:38 am
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CelticKnot's Avatar
United States
12835 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2015  12:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CelticKnot to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


I'm with you, mikepellerin... though not quite as extreme. I normally can go a month or two with an empty wallet. That's kind of a strange position for a numismatist to take, and lately I do try to spend cash here and there just to fill holes in my albums and scratch my collector's itch. Eventually we may get to a cashless society but for the foreseeable future, there's gong to be the need for notes and coins for quite some time. A LOT of people still use cash for various reasons. Perhaps when no one born before 2000 is alive there will be some momentum for your notion.

Besides, it's not up to the Mint (or BEP for notes) to decide that... they simply mint/print what the Federal Reserve Banks order. Congress would need to make such decisions (*shudder*) and we can't even get them to eliminate the cent.
Edited by CelticKnot
09/05/2015 12:50 am
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CelticKnot's Avatar
United States
12835 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2015  12:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CelticKnot to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
to you too, TallTitan!

You raise good points. I too am in the IT field in the financial industry and have plenty of first-hand experience with the joy of PCI compliance. And yes, no one should ever think their data is completely safe. We try, but someone with enough talent, time, tools, and desire will figure out a way. Many of my older relatives refuse to use their CC's on web sites and still pay their utility bills with paper checks.


Quote:
If you swipe regularly, I would recommend keeping a VERY close (such as daily) check on your banking account balance...

Good advice, but I'd add that everyone should do this regardless of how often they use plastic.


Quote:
...and ALWAYS choose the "Credit" option if you can so that the system you are working with can't get your PIN number

Most banks are issuing cards with chips on them now which helps prevent that, but only if the retailer has the equipment to support chip technology.
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Bertensgrad's Avatar
United States
1192 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2015  01:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bertensgrad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm kinda young but not too young and cash is king in my buisness in consulting. Plastic would never replace that since paypal and merchant fees. It's not unusual to get my entire salary in cash. No I am not a drug dealer or smuggler or international arms merchant.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2015  11:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It would be unrealistic to think that hard money will survive into the future. Might take another 100 years, but money is going away. Heck, I'm pushing 60 and don't spend any more cash than the OP. Why bother with the hassle of carrying cash?

The Mint will react when the government realizes how much money is to be saved by consolidating legal tender issues. I don't see that taking another 5 years; chances are the next Administration will be addressing the issue. There are 9-figure sums annually to be saved by consolidating Mint issues for circulation.
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TypeCoin971793's Avatar
United States
6370 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2015  12:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a hard time conceiving how an economy without a hard (non-electronic, not necessarily precious-metal based) currency would function. Would there be a set amount of money in circulation? Where would money come from? How would inflation be controlled? Would there be a set price for all products? How would world currencies compete?

With some thought, I might be able to think of ways this could work, but I'll leave these questions up to discussion.
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TypeCoin971793's Avatar
United States
6370 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2015  12:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As you can see, I am not an economist. I have had only one economics class (I was required to take it) and I learned very little in that class, and learned absolutely nothing about how economies work. That may change next semester in college...
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2015  1:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I have a hard time conceiving how an economy without a hard (non-electronic, not necessarily precious-metal based) currency would function.


All it takes is realizing that the amount of physical currency outstanding has no direct bearing whatsoever on the comparative value of that currency. That only happens because economists tell us it is so, and we believe them.

Fiat currency has no basis in reality. All metrics associated with it are based on the emotional confidence of the users of it. It's that simple. The thing about a switch to a cashless economy which will most surprise the naysayers is that nothing will change.
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jgfindring's Avatar
United States
1380 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2015  1:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jgfindring to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As a person running a small business I can tell you that 90% of our customers pay with plastic. To start with anyway. But as a business owner, I hate plastic. My fees amount to about 3% of sales (they tell you its only 1.66%, but by the time they add in all of the other fees it averages 3.2% for me- and for those who don't realize it, all those rewards cards, it's the merchant that pays you those rewards points) So we offer an extra two percent rebate via wooden dollars to people who pay cash, which is enough to get a lot of regulars to make a point of getting cash to pay us.
Valued Member
Netherlands
74 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2015  3:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add qxy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Although I do pay a lot with plastic, I can think of many reasons why cash won't disappear.
- privacy: anything paid for by card is stored somewhere. Governments don't have the best reputation nowadays when it comes to respecting privacy. In the Netherlands paying electronically has been big for a long time (I've never seen a cheque being used in the Netherlands since the eighties) I now already see a tendency for some people to use more cash and less card.
- underground economy: in some European countries estimated to be up to 25% of the real economy, and completely cash based. It's hard to avoid sales tax or sell drugs or pay your cleaner cash in hand when you don't have cash. Considering the number of people that sometimes do any of those things, there will be a lot of people opposing getting rid of cash
- seigniorage: the profit a government makes on cash (both money getting lost and interest). For the US government this runs in the tens of billions a year. A good reason to keep lots of cash in circulation.
- reliance of technology: it's hard to pay for something when the internet connection is down when you rely on a card. Or when because of a bank error there isn't enough money in your account (in the Netherlands credit cards are not widely accepted, everyone uses debit cards. And I had once that the bank took a large sum out of my normal account instead of my saving account, leading to my card being refused in shops since the balance was suddenly very negative). In those kind of situations it's good to have cash.
- or think of situations like blackouts, war, storms, whatever: there are many scenarios I can think of where paying by card might not be possible.
- cash is the easiest way when you have to pay back a friend whom you owe some money for whatever reason

Sure, the use of cash will get less, but I don't see it disappearing.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2015  3:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm close to you with all that electronic stuff. My Son too never uses cash. I love my credit card that gives me from 1 to 3 % back on everything. And then it gets automatically transferred to an account and again is given 50% more. Just can't see using cash anymore.
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macmercury's Avatar
United States
5830 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2015  5:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
gxy make a lot of good points! A cashless society will take many years, and until it happens. I am with just carl and others that prefer to pay with plastics, using my CC to earn the points to pick up other things.

But I do keep a close watch to my accounts, just happen the other day, I had to call because of a charge I didn't make.
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Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2015  6:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am addicted to using plastic for the points and keeping a close eye on my account.

Rest in Peace
bpoc1's Avatar
United States
4078 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2015  9:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bpoc1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In a rural area it is tough not to have cash.
Going to a local bakery, donate at the church, giving a tip to the newspaper person, donating to the annual drives for charities ie. Veterans, Lions Club and the local schools fund raising.
Being retired all our checks are direct deposit. We then write a check each month for cash to cover these items.
We will not use a card for low ball items ie McDonalds or any other fast food.
We are still check writers local but pay the bills on line.
Old fashion but it works and safe.
New Member
United States
25 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2015  10:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add icculus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was raised to always have some cash on hand and almost always do. In an emergency cash can come in handy. While some of the the new technologies we develop are great; some are just an excuse to be lazy and come with all sorts of security risks associated. Plus lets be honest here; were not talking about brain surgery or building rockets. Its not like having and using cash is some sort of great burden or complication and my life is suddenly so much easier with Apple pay for example.
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