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High End Morgan Dollars As An Alternative Investment?

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Valued Member

United States
245 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2015  11:18 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add TMCD75 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
The title says it all, are high end Morgan dollars a good investment? If I were willing to buy a 15-25 thousand dollar key date morgan, would it be a good idea?

I would buy it and keep it for 15 years but plan to sell it in the 15-20 year window. Have these coins performed well in the past? Where is a place you can see past and future buying/selling of high end coins?

I'm kind of looking for an alternative investment as opposed to buying a rental house or plopping more money on the market. I'm an avid Carson City Morgan guy, collector and investor. Serious responses only please. This is big money I'm considering.
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EFLargeCents's Avatar
United States
1304 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2015  1:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add EFLargeCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Where is a place you can see past and future buying/selling of high end coins?


Auction catalogs. Heritage Auctions has most if not all of their past auctions online free to access simply by signing up. Beyond about 10-15 years you are going to have to search through numismatic literature from secondary sellers.

For Morgans, the best value is in top grade with low population with no chance of additional hordes being discovered. Carson City is by far the worst option in my opinion.
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amida17's Avatar
United States
4897 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2015  1:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amida17 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No idea how good these are I do not "invest" in coins just a collector here..... http://www.us-coin-values-advisor.c...-values.html ....?


Seems as though the stock market is a better gamble though?
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OspreyCoins's Avatar
United States
932 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2015  1:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add OspreyCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Seems as though the stock market is a better gamble though?


I agree, some coins' numismatic value in the next 15-20 years is hard to predict. I think investing in the silver is a better idea then numismatic the value of coins.
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noD's Avatar
United States
1584 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2015  2:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add noD to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No.
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Cascade's Avatar
United States
7390 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2015  2:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cascade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You want a morgan over owning a rental property
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CSOTUS's Avatar
1153 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2015  2:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CSOTUS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
my opinion is that 15k isn't enough to be high dollar. Sure it is a lot of money, but if you are wanting a super duper ultra rare coin that increases in value over 10-20 years, then 15k won't be enough. I am thinking of the coins that are over 100k.

I believe the stock market historically averages something like 8% every year so if you put it in a decent mutual fund you are talking 40-50k by year 15. I don't know if any coin would give you that kind of return.

I don't know, I am no professional, and my bank account surely shows that. Do whatever you think is best. It's your money.
Valued Member
United States
245 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2015  3:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TMCD75 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I appreciate the responses guys, I just have no idea what the appreciation on these things has been the last 50 years or so.

I've got a rental, they can be a pain in the butt. I was looking for an alternative investment but I'm probably not willing to put 70 - 100k in a coin. I need to do research to make a proper decision.
Valued Member
United States
403 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2015  6:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CartwheelCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you are looking for an alternative investment, I would look at something that is not a slowly dying hobby like numismatics. In addition to my coin hobby, I have been purchasing and holding boxes of Magic; The Gathering cards for years, as I used to play when my coworkers often played at lunch. Part collectible, part game, they have far more functionality than obsolete coinage and produce solid returns with selective investing. I spent $1,000 on boxes back in 1999, and today, with occasional reselling of boxes to reinvest funds into newer issue sets, I have turned my $1,000 investment into about $19,000. That is something like 19% per year. Presuming I work another 10-15 years before I retire and can maintain that 19% per annum, I should have around $100,000 worth of material to sell.

I am not saying you should run out and start buying these cards, I am saying that you should look for a hobby that you see people in their early to mid 20's engaging in, that has some level of collectability and remains relatively liquid. Those are the kind of things that will be good investments as that generation of individuals grows older and their expendable income rises. Another good example would be Muscle Cars from the late 1960's and early 1970's. You could buy them cheap in the 1980's, but 10-15 years later, they were worth a small fortune.

Good luck generating those kinds of returns on coins worth less than $100,000 these days. The market and economy just is not there to support investment-quality coins on anything outside of what the very wealthy want to collect, based on the current state and trend of the US economy. If the middle class sees a revival, then I think coins in the $500-$2,500 range would prove to be a great investment, but I have zero faith in the long-term sustainability of the American middle class given the current political environment.
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Brian Mc's Avatar
United States
124 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2015  6:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Brian Mc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm no experts on Morgans per se, but I have to say that I think numismatics in general is a pretty poor investment. When I buy coins, I hope to get a fair price and I hope that the value increases at least with inflation--that's all you can expect of them. And the future value is very unpredictable even when you have a solid past history.

In my humble opinion, if I had around 25k to invest, I'd choose a stable stock in an industry I understand that declares regular dividends and has a Dividend Reinvestment Program. There are lots of good choices out there.

Edited by Brian Mc
09/20/2015 6:57 pm
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2015  7:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Never, ever use what is a hobby for an investment. Yes, coins have been OK over the many years. However, when it comes to items of hobbies, remember the Beanie Babies, Hot Wheel cars, Sporting cards, Beer cans, etc. Such hobbies come and go. Although coins have been sort of great for values going up, just one more thing that could crash. Remember Gold going up, up, up. Now sort of not doing that. I've got a friend with a pile of 8 track tapes. He is waiting for those to go up in value. All said in fun but stick to things that work.
If your just looking for an investment, try Buggy Whips. With gasoline prices so high, the horse and buggy may well be coming back. And think, you'ld have a foothold on a product that is needed. Maybe.
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paralyse's Avatar
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2015  8:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Over any substantial period of time, nothing outperforms the stock market. Nothing. I'd take $25k and put it in no-load mutuals with an aggressive buy and hold strategy. Sure, I can't open a box and stare at pretty coins, but if I'm investing, my goals are maximizing ROI and creating long-term income generation, and coins just don't do either of those things well on average.

Commodities, futures, and PMX are so vulnerable to bubbles -- in just 10 years we've seen oil from $30 to $200 per barrel and back, gold from $800 to $1800 and back, silver from $8 to $39 and back, etc.

However, this is not to say that you should not have a diversified portfolio. I hold stocks, muni bonds, PMX, Treasuries, and a couple of IRA's, in addition to coins and vintage sports cards. But most of my money -- (my future in 20-30 years) -- is in the stocks, and my financial advisor has them on a moderate to aggressive strategy that is paying off well.

Stocks are more liquid than coins and sports cards. I can sell a mutual fund portfolio tomorrow, with a 30 second phone call, but it might take a month or even a year to sell my coins and not lose a lot of money in the process. If I need cash, too, that's difficult to get with coins without taking a loss. There's no dividends, either, and no interest rate, so coins aren't generating income as I get closer to retirement like bonds are.

Speaking of Gasoline -- 1990: 89 cents per gallon; 2010: $3.49 per gallon; 2015: $1.89 per gallon...

People might not even collect coins 100 years from now, or Magic cards, or sports cards, or anything else, but they'll probably still be running businesses, and governments will still probably be needing to finance growth and improvement.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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United States
1450 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2015  8:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add terry8835 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you just look at the value of precious metal stocks since 2009 there have been two crashes and one bull market that ended in 2012. Precious metal mining stocks are in a very steep decline as of today. This all rolls downhill. However, this could change very quickly. I think you would need a lot more than 15k-20k to invest in high end Morgans. You might need 500K-1,000,000 bucks to buy the very best. Morgans are one of the most popular collection coins there are today. If I had a set of Morgans and a couple of sets of Gold Eagles, half eagles and quarter eagles from early 20th century I would be happy as having beautiful coins and possible good precious metal items. I think I agree with most that thinking of numismatics as in collecting and thinking of precious metals should not really be mixed. If you just want silver or gold there are cheaper ways to buy it rather than via coins.
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United States
403 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2015  8:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CartwheelCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I presume OP is only asking because he already holds a substantial amount of stocks and some real estate, hence him asking about alternative investments. I fully believe that at certain levels, coins and other hobby items can be investments, but I would never put more than 2.5% of my overall portfolio value into them. My $19,000 in Magic cards represents right around 2% of my holdings, and I will likely attempt to limit it to 3% at most.
Valued Member
United States
245 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2015  8:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TMCD75 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Cartwheel Collector is correct, I have all of the traditional investments covered. I was thinking about buying a high end Carson City dollar. I saw one on ebay that was a GSA dollar, MS 67 Pop 3 for under 25k. It seems like a strong investment if there are only two considered better. The Carson City series is a very popular collection that the rich like to put together...I'm not rich though.lol.

I was just thinking of buying one of the top GSA CC dollars and keeping it off the market for a number of years and then selling for a tidy profit. Pretty simple idea if you think about it but you've got to be willing to gamble 25k on a coin...
Valued Member
United States
403 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2015  11:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CartwheelCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It seems like a strong investment if there are only two considered better.


I remember when PCGS certified their first MS68 Morgan, it was a big deal. Now? There is 123 1881-S's alone. The lesson here is to never buy conditional rarities. Go for consensus best known coins if you want an investment-grade coin. That doesn't mean the top-graded coin, but the coin that has the provenance and is widely considered the finest known.

If you want to invest in GSA dollars, I would focus on the rare dates like 1879-CC (4,123 total) or 1890-CC (3,949 total) or 1891-CC (5,687 total) with original paperwork. Demand for those will go nowhere but up over time, and supply is likely to have sustained not unsubstantial attrition since they were released, and will likely continue to experience slight attrition going forward. I would really look for MS64 or better coins, or at worst, MS63's. MS62's and lower are actually relatively common and are not worth the tremendous premium for the GSA holder, in my humble opinion.
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