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Wang Mang Spade Money Denomination Question

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Valued Member

United States
264 Posts
 Posted 09/28/2015  2:04 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Dcnw1983 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Is there a denomination for Spade Money? Is there a reference website that I could determine any information on this piece? It weighs 16.92 grams. Thank you.

Wang-Mang-Spade-Money-Denomination-Question

Wang-Mang-Spade-Money-Denomination-Question

Wang-Mang-Spade-Money-Denomination-Question
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Petrus's Avatar
Belgium
2895 Posts
 Posted 09/28/2015  2:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petrus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Spades are charms, not realy coins
The denomination for this one is 'fake' replica
Spade coins are cast
Here is a good site:
http://primaltrek.com/spade.html
Edited by Petrus
09/28/2015 2:35 pm
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TypeCoin971793's Avatar
United States
6370 Posts
 Posted 09/28/2015  3:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Petrus is wrong.

This is a Huo Bu spade, cast under Wang Mang's rule from 14AD to about 20-25AD. The characters on the obverse translate directly to "Money Spade" and this coin circulated at a value of 25 Wu Zhu, or 125 Zhu (a Zhu is an ancient Chinese monetary weight, like a cent). The actual weight value of 25 Wu Zhus is about 62.5g, so you can see that the value is a bit inflated, but not as bad as many of Wang Mang's other coins.

It looks genuine to me, but I'd have to have in-hand inspection of it to make that call. Do you have a picture of the edge?

As for value, $50 isn't unreasonable.
Valued Member
United States
264 Posts
 Posted 09/28/2015  4:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dcnw1983 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are some edge photos.

Wang-Mang-Spade-Money-Denomination-Question

Wang-Mang-Spade-Money-Denomination-Question
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TypeCoin971793's Avatar
United States
6370 Posts
 Posted 09/28/2015  6:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks good. I have a fake one of these (not a bad one), and the edge looks very machined and the corners are all sharp. The corners on yours are all worn and rounded - a good sign.

Where did you get it, if you don't mind me asking?
Valued Member
United States
264 Posts
 Posted 09/28/2015  7:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dcnw1983 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It was part of an inherited collection. There is not much in documentation on where some of the pieces were purchased. I have been learning as I go, but with the older pieces, it has been an uphill battle. Thank you for your help.
Valued Member
RogerRamjet's Avatar
United States
172 Posts
 Posted 09/28/2015  10:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RogerRamjet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have no expertise with Chinese spade money. However, there are enough differences between this Wang Mang spade and the one pictured on the webpage linked by Petrus to conclude that they can't both be real. Specifically, the one on the other webpage has more rounded corners, wider borders, and characters with varying widths. My non-expert opinion, which isn't worth much, is that the one on the other webpage looks more real to me.
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TypeCoin971793's Avatar
United States
6370 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2015  08:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's because the one posted on Primal Trek (owned by manymore on this forum), is worn. The one posted here is not worn.

Also, there was not just one mould from which these were produced. There were literally hundreds used in production, which is why they are so common today. As such, you have to allow for some variation from mould to mould.

Here's mine, and note how it is very worn and that the hole is lightly out of round at the top. This coin was used as a charm on a necklace in ancient times, which is why it is so worn. Most Huo Bus are not as worn.

Wang-Mang-Spade-Money-Denomination-Question

Wang-Mang-Spade-Money-Denomination-Question

And here's a much nicer one I almost bought from Frank Robinson (and I still might).

Wang-Mang-Spade-Money-Denomination-Question
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