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Valued Member
United States
106 Posts |
What do I look for? Unnatural luster? Since its gold I think its not NEAR as easy to spot than for old silver. I have a coin that looks like its in uncirculated details but it just doesn't look right. It was made in 1897. It's a gold french angel. I ordered it from a reputable dealer (or so I thought). I also have a mexican peso 5 peso gold coin restrike from 1955 from which I don't think is cleaned. I've put them in photos for comparison. I also included a link to what my french angel was supposed to look like before the dealer sent it. This first photo was in bad lightning. The second photo is in direct sunlight. Notice you don't see the dark line through the 5 in 1895 The last photo is in indirect sunlight. Do either of these coins look cleaned to you? The 5 peso is a 1955 restrike minted around 1970. Image:  AngelVSPeso1.jpg39.26 KB Image: AngelVSPeso2best.jpg35.51 KB Image: DSCF0026.jpg26.75 KB http://www.coinvault.com/i/c3413.jpghttp://www.coinvault.com/i/c3413r.jpgEdited by OldGoldKing
10/13/2005 4:13 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
954 Posts |
GoldCoinLover,
It's really is hard to tell from a photograph. However if I were to guess I would say that it has been cleaned.
The areas on and in front of the nose show dirt or corrosion. There is pin sopts on both the obverse and revers side of the coin. My guess that it was mishandled, even though uncirculated, MS-60, someone cleaned it to get a better price.
catman
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Valued Member
 United States
106 Posts |
Thanks catman. Which one? The angel or the 5 peso?
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
438 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
106 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by Ætheling
Deja vu non?
No actually, this isn't deja vu if thats what your saying. I am simply asking how to tell if a gold coin is cleaned. |
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
438 Posts |
Like you tell any other coin has been cleaned.
Too bright, unnatural lustre, hairlines etc. It's not something that can be described in words, it's something you have to see and remember. Once you know what a naturally lustrous coin looks like a cleaned one will stand out like a sore thumb.
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Rest in Peace
United States
954 Posts |
Ætheling
That's not always true. I have seen coins cleaned so professionally that they were slabbed without detection. You right however the best way to learn is to see many different coins over a period of time.
This is why its difficult for a dealer to be an expert in more than one or two coin series.
catman
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
438 Posts |
I was just fielding the basics. I don't know much beyond that myself, nor do I particularly care. I collect medieval and Roman coins and with those cleaning is pretty much standard or expected. I don't give two hoots about value, overpaying or grade either. I collect for history, I collect what I find eye appealing. If I like it i'll buy it... I never look at the catalogues these days, they're usually wrong anyhow.
Nearly all my coins have been cleaned at one time or another... might have been as long ago as 1156.
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Rest in Peace
United States
954 Posts |
Good for you. That would make you a true collector who loves the hobby for what it is.
catman
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Pillar Of The Community
3147 Posts |
I have been selling off extra 1800's the last few weeks, mostly U.S., and I find that probably 50% or more have been cleaned at one time or another. Basically, if we were to pull all the clean coins out of the market the remaining coins would be so expensive most folks wouldn't be able to collect any longer. I don't like the word "cleaned" and for the most part WON'T buy a coin marked as such as we have been taught that lessons the value but WE all have cleaned coins and as long as we don't put the old fine eye on each and every coin we collect there will always be the possibility they are in our collection. Now a coin that has been buffed or polished, now thats a different story! They stand out like a new hub cap on a rusty old car. I won't have them around!
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by crystalk64
I have been selling off extra 1800's the last few weeks, mostly U.S., and I find that probably 50% or more have been cleaned at one time or another. Basically, if we were to pull all the clean coins out of the market the remaining coins would be so expensive most folks wouldn't be able to collect any longer. I don't like the word "cleaned" and for the most part WON'T buy a coin marked as such as we have been taught that lessons the value but WE all have cleaned coins and as long as we don't put the old fine eye on each and every coin we collect there will always be the possibility they are in our collection. Now a coin that has been buffed or polished, now thats a different story! They stand out like a new hub cap on a rusty old car. I won't have them around!
Ok I agree completely First every time I tried to launch a subject cleaned or not I was ignored completely or got nonsense answers on all forums I quit Second on another forum me and my friend said uncleaned and a selfproclaimed dealer said absolutely cleaned which in our opinion is completely wrong Third I will try to never ever again comment on cleaned or not because there is dipped and there is mechanically cleaned and as long as people do not understand the difference between mechanical abrasive cleaning and dipping I have no further comment Fourth we can only comment on 300 dpi scans because we have been fooled by photos before ; getting jewellery cleaned coins instead of the advertised uncirculated quality And last we know at least two methods to make cleaned coins look uncleaned to 90% of the so called proffesional buyers And please do not private mail me about these methods |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
ageka
I think most people understand that dipped coins are cleaned coins !!and I dont really think it matters which product is used!!
whizzed coins are harshly cleaned and ugly coins!!
silver polished and buff coins are destroyed coins !!
now I know there are reasons to use acetone to remove harmful crud from coins and its a choice between evils, and one case where the results justify the means.
But you and I both also know that many times coins are doctored in order to fool the unaware and enhance the value of a coin.
Right?
but I think like crystalk said , a large percentage of the coins on the market have been cleaned at sometime in the past.
Rick
Rick
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
Metalman
most french historical coins would be unable to sell if they had not been sitting in a water solution to get the grime off
It has even been stated that water as a medium of rinsing was acceptable to the most sceptical of people
in europe
So I know that all french coins I got are either true uncirculated or water dipped if you can call that dipping
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Valued Member
United States
106 Posts |
Ageka, do either of those looked cleaned to you? are they bad picture?
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Forum Mom
 United States
5877 Posts |
I believe Ageka and I have already told you that the 20 Franc coin appears to have been cleaned in another thread. I also remember that Ageka put a lot of effort into that post and showed you the coin under a blue filter which showed the uneven coloring on the surface indicating the cleaning.
The pic of the 5 peso is too small for me to give an opinion on that one.
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
438 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by ageka
Metalman
So I know that all french coins I got are either true uncirculated or water dipped if you can call that dipping
This is the same with British coins too. Most of the ones I buy will have been cleaned at some point. Most have now retoned nice shades of grey and thus have eye appeal to me, but they probably were rinsed or wiped back in 1760. I agree that harshly polished and heavily hairlined (or moderately hairlined coins) are not attractive. Although having said that I saw a very nice blue toned 1847 Victorian gothic crown that had been cleaned. Of course recently it had started retoning, and the tone was the one that is very highly regarded by British collectors, blue/grey/steel toning. It had some hairlines though but if I could have had it, I would have bought it! Edited by Ætheling
10/15/2005 03:00 am
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Replies: 18 / Views: 15,740 |
AngelVSPeso1.jpg
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DSCF0026.jpg
Posted 10/13/2005 4:35 pm
