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 Replies: 14 / Views: 2,457 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
514 Posts |
So I was looking a little more into the coin I bought last night, and was wondering if someone here is thoroughly knowledgeable in the area of the Province of Canada 1/2 penny & penny tokens. I am assuming this is the correct forum because it is Canadian in nature. I did a couple google searches, and found this; https://goccf.com/t/132852For reasons that I do not understand my (2014) issue of 'Coins of Canada' has these on page 394 & 395, then again on 399 & 400 (I would think being that they are the same lineage, they would be lumped together). Quote:
On page 395 'Habitant':
(I will designate variants by a number in brackets, there is no distinction in this book)
522(1) 1837 halfpenny; City Bank
522(2) 1837 halfpenny; Quebec Bank
522(3) 1837 halfpenny; Bank Du Peuple
522(4) 1837 halfpenny; Bank Of Montreal
521(1) 1837 penny; City Bank
521(2) 1837 penny; Quebec Bank
521(3) 1837 penny; Bank Du Peuple
521(4) 1837 penny; Bank Of Montreal
On page 396 'Bank Of Montreal; side view':
524(1) 1838 halfpenny
524(2) 1839 halfpenny
523(1) 1838 penny
523(2) 1839 penny
523(3) 1839 penny; 'Bank Du Peuple'
On page 399(bottom) & 400(top) 'Bank OF Montreal; front view';
527(1) 1842 halfpenny
527(2) 1844 halfpenny
527(3) 1845 halfpenny
526 1842 penny
526a(1) 1837 penny; 'mule penny'; City Bank
526a(2) 1837 penny; 'mule penny'; City Bank; Taylor restrike
page 400(bottom); 'Habitant' Quebec Bank Tokens;
529 1852 halfpenny
528 1852 penny
Now I think I have this all down, but what I don't understand is: How does one differentiate (theoretically) either 526a from a 521(1) - because it reads as though they are in fact the exact same coin... Does superb condition make a 521(1) suspect for being a 526a? As I mentioned in my other thread, I rarely run across any of these, and even a couple google searches came up with generic information, and few pictures. Is there a publication which sets some of the colonial tokens in a way that makes sense? Since I never really focus on high dollar coins, I think I have found one of my forthcoming collections; I now have: 522(1): EF 527(2): good, or AG 528: poor; has small hole |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
849 Posts |
If your interested in tokens I would pick up this book: http://www.amazon.com/Canadian-Colo...p/0889683689I have it and its pretty awesome. Looking at your coin its labeled as LC-8A1 which look correct based on the photos. There are 2 other varieties and that are based on the V right seriph in Province being inline with the I seriph (A1) or lower then the I seriph and die axis Up/Up (A2) or lower then the I seriph and die axis Up/Down (A3) Not sure about those numbers from CaC tho. --James Edited by qbvbsite
10/28/2015 11:40 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5589 Posts |
Someone who is a token guru should be able to answer this. The book that you cite as your reference is hardly the "bible" for colonial tokens. You can never use a single source for accurate information.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1984 Posts |
The 1837 Lower Canada coins normally have the habitant on the reverse. The mule has the reverse typical of the 1842, with the front of the Bank of Montreal building on it.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
514 Posts |
oh!
so if the ribbon is the front;
and the habitant or BMO is the obverse'
the the 'mule' is a double obverse?
That would make alot more sense.
Thanks for the tip on the book! - I will look into it.
I only like the CoC book because it touches on just about everything made in or for Canada - it otherwise has alot lacking as compared to the Charlton(sp?) guide.
I got a CoC guide a couple years ago, so that I could see some of the stuff not in the (1 of 2) Charlton guide;
I have probably had about six or eight of the Charlton guides over the years.
Edited by unruhjonny
10/29/2015 1:51 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1984 Posts |
The side of the penny with the crest and the City Bank ribbon is the same on both types. The commonly found flip side is the habitant. The scarce flip side is the building.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1285 Posts |
May I also suggest: http://www.ebay.com/itm/A-GUIDE-BOO...AOSwo0JWFz~vAt $18.06 US plus FREE shipping. It is a super book and all the introductory history for each token series is just a whole world of information and insights. Recommended! Edited: written by James Haxby Edited by techwriter
10/29/2015 8:51 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
840 Posts |
Some 120 years ago, a early numismatic pioneer named P. Napoleon Breton,
published a work on Canadian coinage. The numbers 521, 522, etal are merely
his reference identification numbers he assigned to identify basic coinage type.
His numbering system soon became the universal standard and token types still
are referenced by this numbering system. However, it must be understood, Breton's
identifications are generic and not specific.
Later other numismatic legends expanded upon the subject. To wit: Doctor Eugene
Courteau, Lees, Gibbs, etal. For ensample, the 1850 HALF PENNY (St. George and the
Dragon)is identified simply as Breton 720. Breton went no further. However, Dr.
Courteau identified 75 different varieties of the Breton 720. (incidently, there
are over 20 varieties that have been discovered since Dr. Courteau's research).
Most popular publications have expanded somewhat upon Breton's basic identification and
have categorized some of the major sub-divisions within his identification. At present,
none have fully addressed this subject.
doug
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1285 Posts |
As colonialtokens said there's a whole lot beyond the original Breton numbers. One really good thing about the Canadian Colonial Tokens book is the cross-reference located in the back of the book!! Has cross-references of numbers, such as: Breton # Courteau # Willey # Charlton Cat. # 521 8-11H 745-748 LC-9A and so forth doesn't get much easier. I've used it a LOT and I suspect you will also.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1285 Posts |
Just for fun let me reference something germaine to this thread. The link below will take you to the site for CoinQuest a division of Consolidated Numismatics (I'm a LONG time customer); and it's their catalog. Adobe Reader needed go to page 8 and look for column Blast From The PastI think you'll find the topic quite interesting. Regards http://coinquestweb.com/download.ph...D1SGYzAkpj== |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
514 Posts |
Techwriter wrote: Quote:May I also suggest: http://www.ebay.com/itm/A-GUIDE-BOO...AOSwo0JWFz~vAt $18.06 US plus FREE shipping. It is a super book and all the introductory history for each token series is just a whole world of information and insights. Recommended! Edited: written by James Haxby Thanks for the tip! Unfortunately there's no free shipping to Canada - but that's no real surprise to me. :) |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1285 Posts |
Oh, sorry. I didn't know about no free shipping to Canada. Still hope you'll consider the book.
Edit: You don't happen to live near Edmundston, NB do you?
Edited by techwriter
10/30/2015 5:44 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
514 Posts |
It's ok - this is normal.
Nope, I'm pretty much the opposite side of the continent from New Brunswick;
I'm three hours north of the Montana border - on the east side of the Rock Mountians;
Calgary Alberta.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
840 Posts |
Dr. Haxby's book is excellent and well worth the additional shipping.
doug
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
514 Posts |
Just to update this thread, a very generous member has sent me an older copy of this catalogue - it's on route right now.
To all who have offered help, I sincerely appreciate it!
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Replies: 14 / Views: 2,457 |
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Posted 10/29/2015 05:18 am
