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 Replies: 14 / Views: 1,318 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3546 Posts |
Hi, Please give the grade on this coin. I could be incorrect but it looks like the lower left part of the date resulted from a worn or crumbling die. The mint mark looks as if it took a PMD hit. Finally, the true color of this coin is actually white shiny silver with a cartwheel effect. These photos are both only axial-based ones used to accent some greater detail for the variety forum. Please grade it as it is for now and then again later once I upload some shots integrating some diffusion to bring out the luster etc.   |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3546 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36839 Posts |
I could be wrong but a problem I see is that the coin appears to have been plugged. It looks like a hole was repaired by the date and looking at the reverse at 12 O'Clock there also appears to be a surface disturbance. Could you post a few more shots of these two areas?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Good eye, IGE.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3546 Posts |
Quote:
...post a few more shots of these two areas.. I hope these photos bring out what you need to further clarify this issue:   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4337 Posts |
Looks like an A-1/F-101. The date marks appear to be PMD, as if it were being filed away at. There are a lot of disparaging marks on the date overall. I'd call it AU details. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Something wrong here for sure.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
Agree w/dsfreeworld on the F-101 (top half of S filled, first S in STATES defective)
My verdict is AU details, plugged and repaired, with gouges by the mintmark and obverse damage, what appear to be file marks, possibly from the hole repair.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8137 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3546 Posts |
Quote:
...plugged and repaired, with gouges by the mint mark and obverse damage, what appear to be file marks, possibly from the hole repair. It appears that most are saying an AU details grade, F-101. So the related questions would be: 1) What could have been the reason(s) and final objective for someone to have made these modifications of file marks, plug and gouges? 2) Do these file marks, plug and gouges significantly lower the value of this coin compared to what an AU details one could have been worth w/o having these complications? 3) What would be an average retail value for this coin in its actual state now? 4) Where would be the best couple of places to look for prices realized for this coin slabbed with PCGS attributing the F-101? It would be great to have a place like Numismedia retail and/or Heritage wholesale prices but geared especially toward variety coins... 5) What possible factor(s) could PCGS refer to in order to state that this coin would not be eligible for a grade/slab etc? As it is now would this coin most likely pass as eligible for grading/slabbing at PCGS? If readers could respond by IDing each question number, 3) for example, with each answer, I'm sure that the responses would be very helpful for any individual like me still learning the nuances of variety coins in general. mdpmedia |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4337 Posts |
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1) What could have been the reason(s) and final objective for someone to have made these modifications of file marks, plug and gouges? Why do fools fall in love? Quote:
2) Do these file marks, plug and gouges significantly lower the value of this coin compared to what an AU details one could have been worth w/o having these complications?
Details is details and value is typically lowered to as low as 20% of the FMV and then some. It all depends on the severity as you're asking. In the case of this 1869-S, because it is a common place "S" mint coin issue, you're probably around 20% of FMV. This dime would be a fair sell at $50 IMO. Quote:
3) What would be an average retail value for this coin in its actual state now? $50. FMV is around $250 - $300 if it were totally problem free. Quote:
4) Where would be the best couple of places to look for prices realized for this coin slabbed with PCGS attributing the F-101? It would be great to have a place like Numismedia retail and/or Heritage wholesale prices but geared especially toward variety coins... A) F-101 is not a "rare variety". It happens to denote the die marriage and Paralyse expanded on the diagnostics in his assessment of my comment. B) Go to HA.com and isolate all 1869-S history in AU ranges. You'll see some designated problem prices in all likelihood. Quote:
5) What possible factor(s) could PCGS refer to in order to state that this coin would not be eligible for a grade/slab etc? As it is now would this coin most likely pass as eligible for grading/slabbing at PCGS? The last thing you want to do it spend money to grade this coin. It's simply not worth it. Enjoy it raw. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4932 Posts |
Coin has been highly polished/wizzed too.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36839 Posts |
Quote:
1) What could have been the reason(s) and final objective for someone to have made these modifications of file marks, plug and gouges? On scarcer coins, a coin with a hole in it would be filled (plugged) and tooled to try to restore details or hide the fact that the hole was once there. This coin may have been holed to be used on a bracelet or necklace made of coins. It may also be the reason for the cleaning or polishing it received. Quote:
2) Do these file marks, plug and gouges significantly lower the value of this coin compared to what an AU details one could have been worth w/o having these complications? I think a coin with these issues would have a reduced value by at least 50% or more than that of an undamaged coin. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3546 Posts |
Quote:
...a coin with these issues would have a reduced value by at least 50%... Let's say another very valuable coin (not this 1869-S dime) is worth about $ 1k without any alterations. Then let's assume another similar coin becomes available but it has a plug near the date showing an unsuccessful attempt to alter its date. So in this particular example the original date is present but slightly damaged from the effects associated with the creation of the plug etc. Would the TPG still refuse to grade/slab this coin since it appears that someone tried unsuccessfully to change one of the digits of the date? |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Quote:Would the TPG still refuse to grade/slab this coin since it appears that someone tried unsuccessfully to change one of the digits of the date? If the precise date and mintmark cannot be determined, a TPG would refuse to slab the coin. An altered, repaired or damaged coin will not be graded. When a coin is slabbed as "details" it is not graded but rather it is stated on the slab what the grade might be if not for the problem(s). I hope this helps even if it's not clear at the moment. |
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Replies: 14 / Views: 1,318 |
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Posted 11/20/2015 08:04 am
