8 Reales 1747 Mexico: Authentic Or Fake?

The coin is a Numismatic Forgery - essentially worth melt plus a few dollars.

The transfer design smudged when making the mold. See the ND in IND as a blatant example of the error.

Sorry - but do not buy it.

Gasp You are correct to be suspicious.

At the very minimum this coin has been harshly tooled. It displays hard corrosion - dark areas that were chipped off leaving scars on the coin's surface (around the left mint mark).

Most people see that as a good sign - a sign of burial or seawater damage. However, that is not always true. Forgers understand what most collectors believe and take advantage of that. So you need to look at a comparable genuine coin and display them side by side for comparison. I use a database I have developed from TPG coins sold by Heritage and Stacks.

Here is a side by side comparison of just two features. The genuine coin is at the left.



The process of copying a design to a mold or die usually causes sharp features to be lost. Letters are thickened and fine details are missing.

The features I captured and many others I could have copied cause me to believe the coin is NOT genuine.

You are also correct about one other thing - there are MORE numismatic forgeries of Pillar dollars on ebay than genuine ones. Do not expect a bargain - low priced coins will always be forgeries. Check who is bidding against you. People with low feedback are likely new bidders and know less than you do. See how many bidders with 3 or 4 thousand feedbacks are bidding against you.

Avoid all auctions where bidders identities are PRIVATE. Also avoid sales by new sellers and those with names like abf6745 or xyzcg these are often computer generated names associated with the Beijing forgery ring even if the location shown is in the US.

Finally do not believe that you have a collectible Contemporary Counterfeit either. When Class 1 Pillar Counterfeits appear guys like me who collect these coins and know the rarity of genuine Class 1 Pillar counterfeits will outbid you for them because they are worth more than real coins in this series.

Gasp - A few comments:

First I would love to know how you did that overlay. It is not only interesting but it can be used to determine how the matrix was applied to the die. A pair of still pictures that are different colors would be perfect for my application.

These dies were not made like modern dies which are pressed in one shot from a master hub so that all dies are essentially identical. The dies in 1771 were created following a matrix pattern. Each element was punched into the die face one by one. Each letter - number - stops - rosettes - Lions - Castles etc., were punched in one at a time. This overlay shows the variation one would expect.

I have always wondered if the die sinkers followed a specific pattern when placing letters. Starting at one end of a word minor errors can add up so that the last letter is out of place. Your overlay could prove that thesis.

Second - the coin is in my opinion genuine. However, there is a repaired hole top near dead center. The filling of the hole required the creation of the letter E on the obverse and the letter H on the reverse (US convention used). Notice the dentils above the E and H, they are straight line segments cut into the coin. Also note the cross on the top of the crown it too was recut.

So unless the seller advised in his description that the coin was repaired - he was in violation of ANA rules.

That's a great news :) I finally found an authentic one! thanks for your comment again, @swamperbob.

I will be happy to help you if you need to overlay some coins! I used photoshop :) please let's catch up via email: gaspfrazz@hotmail.it

Gasp