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Cleaned, Rag & Water, Never Touched

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dsfreeworld's Avatar
United States
4337 Posts
 Posted 02/16/2016  08:43 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add dsfreeworld to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
For years now I have read time and time again the age old debate of "cleaned" versus "market acceptable" (what I like to refer to as "rag & water" from a long time ago) versus never touched. Its an age old conversation and has often seen great debate here on the CCF.

There are a lot of new collectors to the hobby who might often times become confused by this and whereas grading is subjective, "market acceptable" cleaning can also be very subjective.

That having been said, IMHO, for assistance to the newcomers to the hobby, here is a quick visual difference of 19th century silver in the three mentioned categories:

Cleaned

Notice how bright the devices are. This coin might be deemed "market acceptable" by some but truly, this is a cleaned coin. The brightness of the devices take away from the originality of the coin and its surfaces. I would not consider this problem free and would avoid.

Cleaned,-Rag-&-Water,-Never-Touched

Rag & Water/Finger Rubbed

Same issue but never "cleaned". Notice the uniformity of the surfaces. You get darker peripherals and lighter towards the center of the mirrors indicating that somewhere around 1896 this had a "rag & water" or perhaps a good old fashioned finger rubbing. But much more original than the above coin and I believe an advanced collector would choose this one.

Cleaned,-Rag-&-Water,-Never-Touched

Cleaned

Again, notice the bright devices. The mirrors have darkened over but the devices really give it away.

Cleaned,-Rag-&-Water,-Never-Touched

Wholly Original

This is what an untouched aged, circulated piece of business silver looks like

Cleaned,-Rag-&-Water,-Never-Touched

Cleaned,-Rag-&-Water,-Never-Touched

I hope this information and opinion on the subject is useful.


Edited by dsfreeworld
02/16/2016 08:44 am
Valued Member
United States
215 Posts
 Posted 02/16/2016  09:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add steviegetz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
imo its all about taste, and a market for a single coin type is going to grow more divided. theres people searching for crusty original pieces and those searching for visually attractive pieces, those truly original crusty and attractive are going to be demanding the highest prices. I don't mind rag and water or on certain occasions even an acetone bath. especially if it increases eye appeal without physically altering the coin. I highly dispise dipped coins even tho they are deemed problem free and perfectly fine in some areas
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moxking's Avatar
United States
17900 Posts
 Posted 02/16/2016  9:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is unfortunate but unsolvable that toning or patination is a subjective rather than an objective influence on the desirability of a coin.
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 02/16/2016  9:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have noticed with a few other posts, that some like the devices contrasted.

These collectors could be easily fooled by the rag and water treatment.
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BadToTheBone's Avatar
United States
1795 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2016  10:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadToTheBone to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with steviegetz he has said it well, I couldn't agree more!
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United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2016  10:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Unfortunately due to low mintages on many coins, collectors don't always have a choice. If you need a certain coin for a set and the only one available has been cleaned, not much can be done. I've got many coins that have been cleaned. I needed them and they were the only ones I could find.
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