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Pairing Manual Film Lenses With A Digital Slr

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Dark Sider's Avatar
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 Posted 02/08/2008  5:45 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Dark Sider to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Has anyone here had good results pairing a good manual lens from a film camera with a digital slr. It is possible to use some of the older generation of lenses on digital slrs. However you do lose some features. The main features you usually lose are auto focus, image stabilization and sometimes auto exposure. Losing these features should not be an overwhelming problem for coin photography. You do not have to make quick adjustments for coin photograph and so it is probably preferable to manually focus. A good tripod or copy stand gives one all of the image stabilization one would need. Many older lenses will only work with manual or aperture priority exposure settings but again once one finds the right settings it isn't that hard to leave them in the optimum position or tweak them.

I am considering which direction to go on getting a set up for coin photography. Good used manual AI lenses on a digital slr sounds to me as if it would be a good way to get exceptional quality at the cost of features which I don't really need for coin photography.
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Dark Sider's Avatar
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 Posted 02/08/2008  5:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dark Sider to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are a number of very fine macro lenses available for a relatively reasonable price. I think particularly of some of the Nikon macro lenses. The 55 macro and the 105 macro are reputedly two of the finest macro lenses ever made. They are very sharp all of the way to the edges and very fast. I have been watching these lenses on ebay. The 55 macro lens can be had for not much more than 50 dollars and the 105 macro can be had for around 100 dollars. I would think that the quality of the lenses in these lenses are the equal of the high end lenses available today.

I understand that when these lenses are used with a digital camera they are actually more powerful because the image sensor is smaller than the area of film on a 35 millimeter camera.
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Dark Sider's Avatar
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 Posted 02/08/2008  5:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dark Sider to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The most popular digital slr is the canon eos system. I understand it is possible to use an adapter which allows one to use Nikon and other lenses. They range in price from about 25 dollars up to around 200 dollars. There are a number of quality used macro lenses which are out there. The people I have talked to at photography stores like Canon bodies because they think they are more reliable. They also like Nikon or Leica lenses. It seems that one could use the very finest of the older very fine lenses for a substantial discount.
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KurtS's Avatar
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 Posted 02/08/2008  6:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi, I know a bit about Nikon, as I have all that gear. I have a D70S with the newer Nikkor 60mm macro lens, which works very well for coin photos. For macro lenses, I consider AF a rather superfluous convenience; you can easily focus on stationary objects by eye alone. In terms of lens to dSLR compatibility, I believe that older AI-S lenses will fit, but you might have restrictions on how it meters, depending on the camera. For the D70S, if those macro lenses you mention are AI-S, they will meter fine, except that "3D metering" is disabled. Personally, I'd recommend the D70S because it's a solid workhorse, and I never need resolution over 6MP anyway. And, they can be found at good used brokers like KEH.com for around $500 in great condition.
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Dark Sider's Avatar
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 Posted 02/08/2008  10:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dark Sider to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have used Nikon in the past for my film camera. I have a Nikon FG with a Sakar 35 - 200 zoom lens. That lens has macro but I don't imagine that it's much of a macro lens. Recently I have used a point and shoot and more recently a Kodak digital point and shoot. It doesn't take pictures of coins.

Have you ever tried any of the older AI lenses on a digital body. I think they could work quite well.

As I looked on E-bay it seems that the Nikon 55 macro and 105 macro are the most common good macro lenses available for resale. The average prices are actually close to twice what I quoted earlier but they are still half or less of a newer autofocus lens.

Some people swear by leica or some of the German lenses but they are much more expensive.

I understand there are some third party lenses that are actually very good lenses but I have not seen any of the older lenses for sale on ebay. I would think that they could be had for a reasonable cost.
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7070's Avatar
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 Posted 02/08/2008  10:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 7070 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dark Sider
the 55 macro is an excellent lens, but its max magnification factor is 1:2. To get to 1:1 you have to use an extension ring
(the Nikon PK-13) to get to 1:1 (life-size).

I believe the 105 also requires an extension ring to get to 1:1

Be sure to check the compatibility of your Nikon body with extension tubes.(See note on the BR-2a below)

If you want to try macro on the cheap, try the 50mm 2.8 reversed using a Nikon BR2a reversing ring. Strickly manual operation
a 28mm has even higher magnification.

The "A" in BR2-A is very important if you using a DSLR the older BR-2 will do a number on the metering contacts on your body

Don't forget a good copy stand or tripod. O' yea Lights








Edited by 7070
02/08/2008 10:14 pm
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Dark Sider's Avatar
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 Posted 02/08/2008  10:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dark Sider to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for the information about the Nikon 55 and 105. I don't have a digital slr so I'm not really that concerned about getting any particular brand. What older lenses are there that give a maximum magnification of 1:1?

I have heard of using a reversed lens for macro. It sounds kind of awkward but I have heard it is effective. Have you ever tried it and what were your results?
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KurtS's Avatar
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 Posted 02/08/2008  11:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
7070, that's an interesting comparison, as the newer AF Nikkor 60, 105, and 200 micro lenses now all have a 1:1 ratio (according to Nikon's catalog)

By way of an example of the 60mm Nikkor, here's a shot at near 1:1 (click for full-size)
Pairing-Manual-Film-Lenses-With-A-Digital-Slr
Edited by KurtS
02/08/2008 11:36 pm
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Dark Sider's Avatar
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 Posted 02/08/2008  11:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dark Sider to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's a very nice picture. In macro photograpy is it really the ratio that you can obtain that is more important then the length of the lens as long as you can get far enough away to have proper lighting.

If one is taking pictures of whole coins is it really necessary to get a 1:1 ratio. For instance if you were taking a picture of a very small coin like a silver 3 pence you might get most of the coin in at 1:1, but if you are taking a picture of a larger coin would you necesarily get anywhere needing that kind of magnification?
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KurtS's Avatar
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 Posted 02/09/2008  12:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good point! Personally, I think macro 1:1 is more important if you're into die varieties or errors on coins, where the small details count. For for normal coin photography, I think 1:2 would work just fine.
Edited by KurtS
02/09/2008 12:08 am
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7070's Avatar
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 Posted 02/09/2008  03:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 7070 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

quote:
I think macro 1:1 is more important if you're into die varieties or errors on coins, where the small details count


Unless you are taking a picture of a small coin say a silver 3 cent piece

7070
currently using a Nikon D80 with the 60mm Macro Lens
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hunter20ga's Avatar
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 Posted 02/09/2008  10:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hunter20ga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi, Darksider...going back to your second post. It is my understanding that dSLR's come in two general formats: DX and FX. FX cameras are "full frame"...and equivalent to a film 35 mm camera. These FX cameras are typically at the high end of the price range. Lenses will yield results in FX equivalent to what they would yield in film.

The DX format sensor is smaller, however. So there is an approximate 1.5x increase in "magnification" or crop factor compared to the FX format. In practical use, this means a 60 mm macro lens on a DX camera will give you results similar to a 90 mm lens on an FX format camera. This is very nice for nature photography, because the DX photographer can use a relatively affordable 300 mm lens to achieve results similar to a much more expensive 450 mm lens in FX. At the wide end, however, it means that an 18 mm wide angle lens on DX isn't so wide at all, you need a 12 mm to get the same effect.

At any rate...you are dead right about putting "old" 35 mm film lenses on the DX format dSLR's. Works great, but, depending on the lens series you may lose autofocus, TTL metering, etc. This may be a problem for walkaround photography, but is at most a minor inconvenience for specialized studio photography such as shooting coins.
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Dark Sider's Avatar
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 Posted 02/09/2008  12:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dark Sider to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I take it some one likes silver 3 cent pieces.
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Dark Sider's Avatar
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 Posted 02/09/2008  12:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dark Sider to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I thought this would be a good topic for those who might consider getting a digital slr but don't really know if they can justify spending almost as much again for a lens specifically for taking pictures of coins.

For coins, it is more important to have the capability to do manual focus and exposure than it is to have automatic focus and exposure. I would not be surprised if some of these older, cheaper lenses have glass as good as anything except maybe the highest end today.
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hunter20ga's Avatar
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 Posted 02/09/2008  2:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hunter20ga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The image quality of any name brand macro lens, even one that is 15-20 years old, should be more than adequate for coin photography, especially if the photographer does a bit of post-processing to sharpen, adjust contrast, etc. to bring the photo as close to perfect representation of the coin as possible.
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KurtS's Avatar
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 Posted 02/09/2008  3:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
I would not be surprised if some of these older, cheaper lenses have glass as good as anything except maybe the highest end today.


With the exception of the cheap Nikkor E-series, the build is superior to current lenses. Those older lenses had all-metal lens barrels, and are virtually indestructible in normal use. Generally the optics are very good, especially on the faster AI-S lenses.
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