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 Replies: 18 / Views: 5,916 |
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New Member
United States
13 Posts |
Cheers, I am very green to the Coin World and even greener to any coin forums. Honestly I am more of a silver collector/hoarder. However collecting silver I totally understand the importance of coin as part of the collection. With that said I recently invested in some 20 count boxes of PCGS MS70 certified 2016 ASEs. These are the first and most likely only certified coins I will own and you will see why in a moment. I basically purchased them to hold for a future turn around for a hopefully nice profit seeing they are MS70s and 30 anniversary coins. Upon receiving the first box I excitedly inspected all the coins. Well while doing so I first found two that had clear damage. One more so than the other. I had those two coins professionally photographed so I could have clear and clean pictures to show to the seller and also to PCGS. The photographer found even more damage to both coins. Due to this I inspected all the coins again and found three more clearly damaged coins. I have contacted PCGS and after a week and a half they finally responded basically offering to regrade and certify the first 2 coins in question because they do know about the other three as of yet. Seeing I did not have them graded myself and bought them as MS70s this would make no sense because I have already paid the premium of buying MS70 graded coins. The reason for my post is to get some feedback on this subject. I have pictures if some would like and can and will provide damage descriptions. As of now I am just curious if these coins are a rarity and maybe hold more value or are they basically just a mistake? Lastly again in all honesty I was before and am even more so now a huge skeptic of the grading/certification process seeing after doing some research I found that it seems flawed and somewhat a gimmick. It is a pricey process to have someone else tell you what you have. Sadly in the end that someones opinion can make a lot of coin collectors go crazy for your coins and earn one a great return on their investment, hence me pulling the trigger on the 40 MS70 ASEs I purchased. I look forward to seeing what the community has to say and as stated can and will supply more details and pictures if one needs. As for now I am just looking for what people think about damaged graded MS70 ASEs. Thank you for you time. "Be good, have fun and if you can't be good just don't get caught" |
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Moderator
 United States
56855 Posts |
 to CCF. Photos would help. Depending on the type of damage it could add collect-ability and value. John1  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1005 Posts |
If I recall correctly, PCGS has some sort of guarantee where if they determine their original grade to be incorrect, they will pay you the market difference in value based on their error if you send them back the incorrectly graded coin. This excludes clerical errors or coins that are obviously misgraded. Also, I ma unsure whether this grade guarantee applies to bullion, but it seems like what you would want given the situation you described. I'm sure others will also be able to chime in but best of luck with your new acquisitions! |
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New Member
 United States
13 Posts |
Thank you so much for the comments thus far. I am attaching some photos of three of the coins. The first coins is the better but still clear damage. The first pictures you see a nick in the rim between the B and E. The next two one shows more rim damage bellow the R and scratches between the E and D. Not that dab but the nick certainly shouldn't make this coin MS70 quality. The next three pictures are of the second one of the first two I found and by far the worst. First picture shows 4 gouges along the rim from the A to E. Next is a clear rim contact read marks on the third down star on the left in the star cluster and finally while not all that bad but still there is a picture of rim contact along the top of the obverse rim lip. The last coin I found after the fact and this one I am surprised I did't see in my first inspection for you will see in the picture I took with my phone a clear dimple above the Y. I hope this helps people see what I mean and will further help me decide what to do. Thank you again to all for helping in advance.        |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1005 Posts |
It looks like the labels are different between the first and the last coin? You should make sure the holders are not tampered with or counterfeit themselves, then hold PCGS to their guarantee: http://www.PCGS.com/guarantee/Since MS70 coins should not have any of the marks shown above. That is, if the price difference between MS70 and the true grades of those makes it worth your time and effort for resubmission. |
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Valued Member
United States
175 Posts |
So sorry for your misfortune. I have read sooo many horror stories of buying MS70 coins. So little wiggle room in price to product. I've recently started an ASE collection myself. Well 2 of them actually... One will consist of MS69 proofs when possible and coins. But they will be MS69 or better. I say or better, because IF I can find a MS70 for around 69 pricing there is a good chance I'll pull the trigger. The other is going to be raw of the best qualities I can find at a fair price. Good luck! |
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Moderator
United States
56855 Posts |
Don, I don't see an added premium for that kind of damage. Good luck with whatever you choose to do. John1 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7390 Posts |
This is quite common. I got a box of 20 too and about 1/3rd have various degrees of minor blemishes. You have to understand that these are "shotgun" graded BY THE MONSTER BOX using the most green rookie graders they have so I assume there is language in their guarantee policy that excludes these or they just don't think many will bother to resubmit them under their guarantee. I must say though that I am appalled at how many are obviously not 70 at a glance but when a monster box is put in front of a first day grader and he's told to be done in an hour this is what happens unfortunately. And another unfortunate is that because of this any 70 newer 5han probably 2009 or so will not appriciate in value like previous years
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New Member
United States
13 Posts |
(It looks like the labels are different between the first and the last coin? You should make sure the holders are not tampered with or counterfeit themselves, then hold PCGS to their guarantee:)
Thank you and I maybe taking advantage of their guaranty for I am just waiting for a reply from the gentleman I have been corresponding with. As far as the labels they are all the same and if fake very well done however the first pic was taken by a pro and the last pic by my cell phone. Other than that they are the same other than numbers.
Thank you again
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New Member
United States
13 Posts |
John1,
"I don't see an added premium for that kind of damage. Good luck with whatever you choose to do."
Thank you for taking the time to look at the pictures. I am awaiting a response from Joseph at PCGS after he gets a chance to see the pictures himself. At that time I will most likely be sending them back along with an other one I found to be regarded and refunded.
Thanks again
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
I wouldn't mess with PCGS and instead would return them to the seller for a refund. Have you contacted the seller?
I played the "70" game briefly a few years ago and quickly determined it to be a fool's errand. Many people don't examine their coins that closely but those of us who do will find a quick route to insanity trying to buy "70" graded coins.
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New Member
United States
13 Posts |
"I wouldn't mess with PCGS and instead would return them to the seller for a refund. Have you contacted the seller?"
Thank you for you comment but I have contacted the seller and we have passed the return deal for I chose to get a great deal on a second set he inspected before shipping. All in All I have learned my lesson and will most likely never do this again. Funny, like my first post states I was am even more now a skeptic of the whole grading thing. Just seems to me there is way to much room for error to trust someone else to say its grade but I get what it means to collectors. Just not me. Thanks again
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7390 Posts |
Imo your taking too much out from this. Like I said, today's bullion silver eagles are shotgun graded by newbies. This is the norm with new, post 2009 ASE's and doesn't mean that other series or pre 09 ASE's are as bad at giving a 70 grade nonchalantly. Don't let this experience get you down as it is what it is. And btw, sending them back to PCGS is a fools errand as well even if they let you. I hope it doesn't sour you to the hobby though and I suggest just selling them on ebay and rolling the cash over to something else. Thus would be the best coarse of action unless you want to keep them Edited by Cascade
02/28/2016 12:43 pm
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New Member
United States
13 Posts |
"I hope it doesn't sour you to the hobby though and I suggest just selling them on ebay and rolling the cash over to something else."3 I am still considering keeping them for my collection but selling them I feel I would be taking someone else for granted and be sticking them with poorly graded coin seeing I know full well. I really wouldn't like doing that and risking my reputation. Though it be small it's still not worth it. I get what you mean about them being shotgun graded and before I even got to into it that was one of my thoughts. However it still doesn't mean it is right. As far as souring me to the hobby I love silver, bullion, coins, raw, bars, collectable round, shot, hand poured, ect, ect, ect. As for coins only I enjoy them but it is way deeper than what I am willing to put into it. I got the two boxes to hopefully use for a future flip profit. After that I enjoy the beauty of silver coins and appreciate the value but I try not to take it that seriously. All in all like you said it is what it is and in the end I learned something from it. Key thing though is I will not lose money on them and if having to send them back to PCGS and get the difference in grading I will take the time to do so for The gentleman I have talked to said I was covered. No sweet of my brow. Once again thanks for your comments I really do appreciate the kind responses. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7390 Posts |
Well I hope whatever route you choose goes well don. If ypu do deal with PCGS let us know how it goes. And also, I would normally agree and never condone selling sub part 70s with anything else other than recent ASE's as the market knows about them. Sure not everyone but most do which is why they don't trend to rise much higher than their original price of around $40-50. Again, whatever happens I hope the best for you and the outcome. Keep us updated  |
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New Member
United States
13 Posts |
Cascade,
Thank you again, I will keep you posted on my outcome with PCGS. It seems you know a lot when it comes to dealing with them, and I have a feeling it hasn't been pleasant, maybe I am wrong. I have reached out to them for a third time since the first response from Joseph and explained I am not at all happy with how they/he is handling my issues. Never mind it took him a week and half to respond to my very first inquiry regarding the quality.
The information about the market knowing about the subpar 70s you gave me is great. I wouldn't have known this and now I do and that is awesome.
Once again I am very grateful for your wisdom and I will keep you all updated on the PCGS outcome.
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Replies: 18 / Views: 5,916 |
Posted 02/27/2016 3:11 pm
