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Is This 1972 Possibly A Doubled Die?

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Valued Member

United States
362 Posts
 Posted 03/02/2016  11:27 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Mdnyte to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
i tried my best with the pictures but I had
A hard time avoiding glare with a few of them
but does anyone have any idea if this is a doubled
die?



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Bedrock of the Community
coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 03/02/2016  11:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry, that is Machine Doubling. Machine movement od the dies during the strike damaging the devices. It removes the taper of the devices, making flat, shelf like. On some you can see the metal pushed like a snow plow.
Is-This-1972-Possibly-A-Doubled-Die?
Note how the metal is pushed in the direction that the machine moved, damaging the devices. Some call it Machine Doubling, but nothing is doubled, it is reduced from damage to the devices. (I'm a realist)
Is-This-1972-Possibly-A-Doubled-Die?
It also reduces the devices. Note the 'D' in this image. The overall shape of the devices is there, but damage has reduced the upper part of the 'D'.
So the value for these (well to me) are nil. I prefer a nice early die state coin in the best grand I can find. Beauty is in the beholder.
Edited by coop
03/02/2016 11:39 pm
Valued Member
United States
362 Posts
 Posted 03/02/2016  11:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mdnyte to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Coop. So the date is just
machine doubled also?
Pillar of the Community
Maineman750's Avatar
United States
3592 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2016  06:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Maineman750 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The obverse is also master die doubling
Rest in Peace
moxking's Avatar
United States
17900 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2016  09:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 72 has such a wide spread on the doubled devices that it is unmistakable. Look at an example and you will always remember it.
Valued Member
United States
362 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2016  10:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mdnyte to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Mainman750 and Moxking. I'm
really confused with this one. Is it some of the
devices are dd and some machine doubled? I'm
still in the learning stage with how to tell dd's
verses md's. I'm hoping one of these days
I'll get the hang of this.
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coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2016  10:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
When Maineman750 mentioned master die doubling, there was an issue that year that coins from all three mints were having this issue because of a doubled master die. So all three mints had this problem. They are doubled dies, but common because of the number of them. Here is what to look for on these:
Is-This-1972-Possibly-A-Doubled-Die?
But only one of the ones listed on coppercoins has the master die doubling. these are nice doubled die that are collectable. The spread is very noticeable on some and minor on others. Check coppercoins to images of these.
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=eds
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=eds
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=eds
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=eds
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=eds
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=eds
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=eds
This is the one with master die doubling 009
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds
Most after that number are weaker and harder to find. But I wanted to show you what to look for on these. The doubling is on the die, thus the term doubled die. Machine damage happens during the strike. Because of die movement, it damages the devices with a sideways movement reducing the side of the devices. Because of this movement or bounce during the devices are usually affected part way up the device, flattening them or making them shelf like instead of rounded. Here is a close up of Machine damage:
Is-This-1972-Possibly-A-Doubled-Die?
Because of the bounce during the strike, the device is reduced by damage during the strike. this is from a normal die that altered this coin.
On a doubled die, (doubling is on the die) the devices are enlarged during the hubbing process:
Is-This-1972-Possibly-A-Doubled-Die?
On the 'B' you can see a rounded top on to top of that device. If this was MD then the color would all be the same color. But not it fades from ligher to dark. Also note the inside loop of the 'B' on the bottom. See how it is enlarged. That is because of the hubbing issue during the strike. Each strike with that die will produce the same spread. (the difference between hubbings)
Some are quite wide and the wider the more collectable the doubled die becomes:
Is-This-1972-Possibly-A-Doubled-Die?
Is-This-1972-Possibly-A-Doubled-Die?
Is-This-1972-Possibly-A-Doubled-Die?
Hope this helps.
Valued Member
United States
362 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2016  11:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mdnyte to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh thank you Coop. Yes it's very helpful.
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Maineman750's Avatar
United States
3592 Posts
 Posted 03/04/2016  08:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Maineman750 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Mdnyte...the simple answer is that your coin has both MD and master die doubling...and that is a confusing combo :)
Valued Member
United States
362 Posts
 Posted 03/04/2016  9:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mdnyte to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Lol...So true Maineman750
As many times I try to compare the notes
to the actual coin I'm lucky if I get two steps
ahead. When it comes to the double dies
I got a lot to learn. :)
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