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Obverse Grading Standards For 20 Cent Pieces

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Thundercoin's Avatar
United States
675 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2008  4:55 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Thundercoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have what is now a very old photograde edition, (it's from when I started collecting, 1988). In the book it says the following for 20 cent pieces...

VG- "One or two letters of LIBERTY will show"

F- "Most of the word LIBERTY will show, (less than 2 1/2 letters can be missing)".

From what I have seen this standard is not currently being applied. I was looking at 20 cent pieces graded but PCGs, NGC, etc, and they seem to have a much looser example. Have the standards changed in recent years?

Here is an example of a PCGS F-12 that recently sold on ebay. It has no letters in Liberty visible.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1875-S-Liberty-...12_W0QQitemZ200199011087QQihZ010QQcategoryZ149932QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

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halfabustisbetter's Avatar
United States
1984 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2008  5:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add halfabustisbetter to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, the standards have loosened considerably.
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okie-colin's Avatar
United States
1083 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2008  7:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okie-colin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My old Photograde is dated 1970, but it reads the same as yours on the Twenty Cent Piece. While I like the grading guidelines in my old PG, it is too conservative on a few coins like the Twenty Center. The word Liberty on this series was raised in the design and wears away faster than for instance, a liberty Seated quarter. My 1981 ANA GRading Standards states for a 20 cent to be F-12 three or more letter must be readable. I like that as being about right. I know standards have loosened, but I don't agree with PCGS that a tweny cent coin can be a F-12 with NO letters visible. Just one old farts opinion.
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Amazon99's Avatar
United States
2443 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2008  02:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Amazon99 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
but I don't agree with PCGS that a tweny cent coin can be a F-12 with NO letters visible


I have no problems with that if the coin is truly a fine.
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Prethen's Avatar
United States
3233 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2008  09:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Prethen to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The problem is that you need to take strike into consideration. I agree that a coin that is better struck should be worth more than one that is softly struck. However, technically, a grade is based on wear not strike. The old grading books really didn't take that into account and essentially made it easy for everyone to understand what a certain grade coin should look like assuming a perfect strike.

20-centers are their own world. Many of them are softly struck, especially the popular Carson City mints. You learn how to grade these coins not just by what the "old grading standards" said but by other things, like the eagle's head, stars, rims, the obverse shield outline, etc.

Well struck 20-centers are difficult to find and come with a premium. That's not to say you shouldn't pursue them, but don't place a huge amount of emphasis on what old standards said. You have to take a lot more into account. Even eye appeal can slightly bump up a grade.
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2008  12:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Prethen makes excellent points about this "odd" denomination

You can also apply that to any series where LIBERTY or some other small part of the design is mainly relied upon to grade the coin. You have to come to a grade based on the coin as a whole and if one small part disagrees but the rest of the coin looks the grade, then you probably have some strike weakness to take into account. Unfortunately, strike weakness is often confused with wear and the only way to figure it out is with experience looking at as many coins as possible and seeing all the differences in strike quality. Prethen just loves cherrying those undergraded 3CNs!
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Metalman's Avatar
United States
7123 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2008  2:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Weakly struck and die weakness are also different things , die state plays a major role in any grading standard for any coin series .

and again this is something that is not learned from grading guides but by personally viewing as many different coins as possible.

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