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How Do You Spot A Fake Slab?

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MontCollector's Avatar
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2403 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2016  2:30 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add MontCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I know there are a lot of fake coins out there and I have been learning how to spot those, but I haven't seen any information on how to spot a fake TPG companies slab.

How does one spot a fake one? Are there some that are faked more than others?

I do verify EVERY NGC and PCGS slab I consider buying...but I am also assuming they would use real numbers on fake slabs so this doesn't do much.

Thanks...Mont.
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mdpmedia's Avatar
United States
3546 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2016  02:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mdpmedia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello,

For fake PCGS slabs:

https://goccf.com/t/243849

For fake NGC slabs:

https://goccf.com/t/245168

These will get you off on the right track but remember the old adage, "Buy the coin and not the slab."

Even clever counterfeiters slip up sometimes and will inadvertently place a genuine coin in a fake/altered slab.

Good luck
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MontCollector's Avatar
United States
2403 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2016  02:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MontCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
TY mdpmedia Very interesting reading and VERY helpful!
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BStrauss3's Avatar
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4593 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2016  09:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You can also verify the 2nd tier SEGS, ICG and ANACS. (Please, let's not fight over which belong in 2nd tier based on quality of grading, all I'm saying is they can be verified)

Beyond that... caveat emptor.

Today, most of the 3rd tier, basement slabers aren't worth considering as anything other than raw.

Now some of the older slabs were well regarded in their day and are probably reliable within a point or two - I'm thinking of late 80s early 90s

- PCI PhotoSlabs and 1st generation Greens (three codes on the back)
- NCI

But even then there were companies well know for 'market' or 'over' grading.

If you are going to play in that swamp you need to train (and trust) your own eye for grading and learn which of them are the worst and the best.
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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edweather's Avatar
United States
7375 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2016  1:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add edweather to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You're right, the slab numbers match a lot the time, but the usually barcodes don't. If you compare them, you can usually see the difference between real and fake.
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2016  2:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The problem with trying to give information on how to identify fake slabs is that they have gone through several generations as well nd they keep improving their product as well.
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mdpmedia's Avatar
United States
3546 Posts
 Posted 04/22/2016  11:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mdpmedia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd like to get opinions on whether on not a coin slabbed and documented using 'TrueView SM' photography from PCGS has any possible security concerns:

http://www.PCGS.com/trueview/#whatistrueview

This seems to be an excellent service for visually linking on-line the cert # to the coin's photo but counterfeiters eventually seem to find ways 'beat the system'.

Could there be any downside risk (currently or potentially) from buying a PCGS-slabbed coin using this TrueView feature?

If so, try to be specific insofar as the guidelines that a reader should adhere to for detecting innovative methods that a counterfeiter could conceivably or would be operating with.

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MontCollector's Avatar
United States
2403 Posts
 Posted 04/22/2016  11:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MontCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I personally keep my own photos for my records. The coins I want people to see I post here. I wouldn't pay someone to photograph my coins. Having said that I do think they could update or redo their visual reference guide.

Kind of bugs me when I go to verify new slab and they don't have a pic for the coin. But I imagine the storage needed to keep images of every coin they grade would be massive and constantly need updating.
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Conder101's Avatar
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17884 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2016  08:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
PCGS only does photos of a relatively small number of the coins they slab and have only been doing so for a fairly short time. Hence there aren't a lot of photos on their certificate verification site. NGC images every coin they grade and has done so for the past seven years or so. So there are a LOT more images on the NGC verification site. (Even so its seven years worth of graded coins out of 27 years of slabbing.)
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BStrauss3's Avatar
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4593 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2016  10:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Storage is cheap. It's the manpower to take and manage (post processing, filing, etc.) the images that is costly.
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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Trade2much's Avatar
United States
4 Posts
 Posted 11/29/2017  08:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Trade2much to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Counterfeit slabs: I just now found one which is highly suspicious imo on ebay. It is for an 1879CC Capped XF45 Morgan. On the obverse it looked like a PCGS slab, but on the reverse the hologram label is severely degraded. Looks to be rubbed off and since PCGS has embedded their labels in the polymer for years now imho that wear should not be evident from what I've read. I then checked the PCGS cert# and it checked, as many counterfeit slabs do since they are just copied, buttt on the PCGS cert chk site I saw it last sold at auction in 2011 at a Heritage auction. Using that link I was able to go directly to a pic of the reverse and the holo label pic, what was then sold. It was the same date and grade BUTTT the reverse "embedded" hologram label was not damaged at all in that pic. I had read in a another coin pub, I think coin facts, that counterfeiters many times have degraded slab labels on the reverse side since they are surface labels. This article even had pics of the counterfeit eroding hologram labels. Anyway, since the guy wanted $1k for it I thought it best to let him know what I found, and said maybe he should double check what he is selling. His reply "mind your own business". . So BUYERS PLS beware fake slabs generate false confidence, check them before you buy. Many times on the more expensive coins. Once in a slab you can't check metal content, reeds, weight, etc very well.
Raw coins have one set of issues to watch and slabs have another, either of them will have gradeflation commonly
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