There are some real good "coin people" on this forum! billjones, please keep up with the teaching, a lot of this could take years and dollars to learn..I think the bottom line is the market drives the whole hobby, and maybe we are seeing a swing back towards cleaning being more acceptable?although with lower value with these pieces...The true orig. ones can be a beautiful sight,for sure! I just hate "details" on the holder,and I am letting several of mine with this designation go..