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 Replies: 14 / Views: 1,901 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4883 Posts |
See: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1884-CC-MOR...AOSwvg9XUJOzAm I missing something here? Since when does anything but a true Philadelphia mint proof get certified with a proof grade? I also notice the seller is further hyping it with an added "BM" designation. Since this issue in MS65DMPL "books" for, like, $1,500 it seems to me that the $519,800 asking price is rather ridiculous in any event. Colligo ergo sum
Edited by Lucky Cuss
06/08/2016 6:49 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2403 Posts |
 My research says there were no Proof 1884CC Dollars. There were a lot of DMPL with deep cameos though. Notice the census count is 1 according to NGC numbers. This is a classic example of buy the coin NOT the holder. I do agree this makes MS65DMPL all day long. But NOT a Proof. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7390 Posts |
I'm not an expert on branch mint morgan proofs but I'm guessing this could be one of them
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7390 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Quote:
I also notice the seller is gurther hyping it with an added "BM" designation.
That is not "hype", BM means that it is a very rare Branch Mint proof and yes, they do indeed exist. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2403 Posts |
Wow Cascade...Thanks for that. I stand corrected. I think I remember hearing about one of the mint directors making like 8-10 Morgan dollar Proofs to be given out as gifts. These are extremely valuable now. Don't remember year, but it wasn't these. Wonder if this one could be something like that? Edited by MontCollector
06/08/2016 3:41 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7390 Posts |
Who knows. The reason has been lost to history unless some documentation comes to light
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4883 Posts |
Quote:
BM means that it is a very rare Branch Mint proof and yes, they do indeed exist Yes, I get that, but the "Branch Mint" aspect is implicit and I was just notingt tat inserting "BM" into the grade description is really just a bit of bashing us over the head with the fact - if it's truly so. It'd seem to me that the notion that branch mint proofs are real is hardly universally accepted, and I'd think such ought to be supported by some documentation, not just the opinion of any TPG. If this 1884-CC came out of a stored treasury bag or a subsequent GSA holder, its proof status would be very much in doubt. Before I'm willing to accept this as a Carson City produced proof, I'd like to know its provenance - where has it been since 1884, in whose custody has it been? And if NGC can verify such convincing evidence, why not put that on the label? I'm sorry, but count me among the skeptics on something like this, regardless of NGC's anointing of it. Colligo ergo sum
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
I believe the existence of such branch proofs has been well documented over the years. I'm certain Dave Bowers has written about them, among others. Certainly we must have members on the CCF who can add to this discussion!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4883 Posts |
To quote Wayne Miller: "The branch mints lacked the huge hydraulic presses used by the Philadelphia mint, and their personnel had very little experience in the production of proof coins. Also, many branch mint proof Morgan dollars show evidence of careless handling. Consequently, the determination of a branch mint proof coin can be difficult. Legitimate differnces of opinion may exist among knowledgeable people about whether a given coin is or is not a branch mint proof." Apparently some authorized branch mint proofs do exist, namely the 1879-O, 1883-O, 1893-CC, and 1921-S. Some 1882-CC and 1887-O may be considered proofs simply because they are struck to that exacting standard, although no authorization is known to have survived. Regarding the 1884-CC in particular, Miller classes any such as " possible but doubtful branch mint proofs." Overall, the branch mint proof is a very fuzzy area in Morgan dollar collecting at best. I'm just not sure if the very first business strikes with carefully prepared dies might've been indistinguishable from true proofs, but unless they were intentionally struck as such, I'm not sure it's proper to call them that. It's why I'd want real provenance for one, not just NGC saying "sure looks like a proof to us." Colligo ergo sum
Edited by Lucky Cuss
06/08/2016 6:48 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1748 Posts |
$519k?  Dream on. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
506 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4989 Posts |
PCGS believes all four of the 1884-CC's that are called "branch mint proofs" are actually DMPL coins. Until CAC is willing to bean one of these I would say buy with extreme caution. The last 1884-CC to sell with this designation went for $184k at auction in 2009 so the price is not necessarily unreasonable IF this is a true top pop branch mint proof. But that is disputed.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
345 Posts |
Thx BH for the information
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Replies: 14 / Views: 1,901 |
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Posted 06/08/2016 3:17 pm
