Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin AuctionsVancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Specializing in Modern Numismatics 300,000 items to help build your collection! Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

1837 Half Penny City Bank Token

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 10 / Views: 1,974Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community
fourmack's Avatar
New Zealand
1679 Posts
 Posted 07/20/2016  8:40 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add fourmack to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Grade and variety please
Note doubling of the legend

1837-Half-Penny-City-Bank-Token

1837-Half-Penny-City-Bank-Token
Cheers Don

Vickies cents and GB Farthings nut.
"Old" is a figure of speech and nothing more
Edited by fourmack
07/20/2016 9:04 pm
Valued Member
GregJG's Avatar
Canada
257 Posts
 Posted 07/20/2016  9:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GregJG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
EF-40 or 45 on a good day
I'm not knowledgeable enough to attribute a variety
(When someone does could they say where they found it? I'm just learning)
Pillar of the Community
fourmack's Avatar
New Zealand
1679 Posts
 Posted 07/20/2016  9:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fourmack to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Gregg; I beleave its this 1 but there is more to the varieties on these, note the V in
PROVINCE

#8593;#8593; - V lower than top I
Issuer: City Bank (Montreal)
Mint : Soho Mint
Issuing date : 1837
Denomination : 1/2 penny
Composition : Copper
Diameter : 28.2 mm
Breton # : 522
Charlton # : LC-8A2
Km # : Tn6
Cheers Don

Vickies cents and GB Farthings nut.
"Old" is a figure of speech and nothing more
Pillar of the Community
United States
840 Posts
 Posted 07/20/2016  10:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add colonialtokens to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I will do a work-up on it in a few days.
Presently, kinda busy.

doug
Pillar of the Community
fourmack's Avatar
New Zealand
1679 Posts
 Posted 07/20/2016  10:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fourmack to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Excellent thanks Doug
Cheers Don

Vickies cents and GB Farthings nut.
"Old" is a figure of speech and nothing more
Pillar of the Community
fourmack's Avatar
New Zealand
1679 Posts
 Posted 07/20/2016  11:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fourmack to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A close up of the HALF

Note the F

1837-Half-Penny-City-Bank-Token
Cheers Don

Vickies cents and GB Farthings nut.
"Old" is a figure of speech and nothing more
Pillar of the Community
fourmack's Avatar
New Zealand
1679 Posts
 Posted 07/20/2016  11:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fourmack to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Doug if you get a chance can you check these as well https://goccf.com/t/260793
Thanks
Cheers Don

Vickies cents and GB Farthings nut.
"Old" is a figure of speech and nothing more
Pillar of the Community
United States
840 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2016  11:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add colonialtokens to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Doctor Courteau first separates these into two grouping dependent
upon whether the V in PROVIDENCE is on-line with the I in the same
word (as does Charlton etal). Dr. Courteau identifies 16 different
varieties of group 1 (having the V on-line with the I) These are
(1, 1a, 1b, 1c, 1d, 1e, 1f, 1g, 1h, 1i, 1j, 1k, 1l, 1m, 1n, and 1o).

Dr. Courteau identifies 13 different varieties of group II (having the
V lower than the I). These are 2, 2a, 2b, 2c, 2d, 2e, 2f, 2g, 2h, 2i,
2j, 2k, and 2l. The token in the photo shews the V lower, thus we have
narrowed the search to varieties 2-2l.

Another primary diagnostic of Dr. Courteau concerns the letter F in HALF.
The F is either perfect or re-cut in full, or re-cut in half. What is being
described is an inner vertical of the cross-bar of the F. Some shew a normal
F, others (such as the excellent photo you provided) shews re-cutting above
and below the horizontal. The half cut only shews the upper section re-cut.

Varieties shewing the Perfect F are: 2, 2a, 2d, 2h, 2j, and 2l.
Varieties shewing the F half-cut are: 2f, and 2i,
Varieties shewing the F fully double-cut are: 2b, 2c, 2e, 2g, and 2k.

Now comes the harder stuff. The following are exact quotes of Dr. Courteau.

2b. Obv. The defect at right ceriph of V shows plainly. Top and bottom of
S in BAS of equal size, but defective at bottom. Ceriph of C in CANADA recut
inside, right foot of A [in CANADA] on line with that of N. Small spots in
the die close to dots around border, between the words UN and PROVIDENCE.
From perfect and broken dies; the crack extends from border touching S in BAS,
across man's body into the field above N in UN.

Rev. The middle cross-bar of F in HALF is entirely double-cut. Both points of
right ribbon are fully struck. Small period after PENNY. R. 6.

2c. Obv. Right ceriph of V defective. Top and bottom of S in BAS of equal size,
but defective at top, and its ceriph double-cut. Right foot of A on line whth that
of N. Top of S in SOU recut. In most instances with a die-crack from border through
S in SOU to man's left foot.

Rev. Middle cross-bar of F entirely double-cut. Both points of right ribbon fully
struck. Small period after PENNY. R. 3.

2e. Obv, Right ceriph of V in PROVINCE defective, bottom of C in same word unfinished.
Top and bottom of S in BAS of equal size. Right foot of A noticeably higher than that of N.

Rev. The middle cross-bar of F in HALF is entirely double-but. Both points of right ribbon
are fully struck. Small period after PENNY. R. 2.

2g. Bov. Small defect at right ceriph of V. Top and bottom of S in BAS of equal size.
Right foot of A a triffle higher that that of N. The second upright o N in UN has a miscut
ceriph at bottom. [this is a short line emanating from the base of the upright].

Rev. The upper leafless-stem of shamrock sprig is blocked. Middle cross-bar of letter F
double-cut. R. 1.

2k. Obv. The letter P in PRIVINCDE slants to the right, right ceriph of V defective.
double ceriph to top of S in BAS. Right foot of A a trifle higher than that of N. Small
period after last A. The top of S in SOU a trifle larger than the bottom, hence inverted S.
From perfect and broken dies. In the latter case two small cracks from border, one to the
right limb of you in DU and the other to the second A in CANADA.

Rev. The middle cross-bar of F is entirely double-cut. Both points of right ribbon fully
struck. Small period after PENNY. R. 3.

UGH...
We can eliminate 2c as the C in CANADA is normal, and the A is not noticeably higher.
We can eliminate 2g as the sprig is not blocked and the N in UN is normal.

I would have to compare this with my confirmed ensamples of 2b, 2e, and 2k to make
a positive attribution and these currently reside in the bank. By confirmed, these have
the diagnostic die-cracks. At present, I am leaning toward 2b. But I am not willing to
say for sure.

p.s. A nice XF 40.

doug

Pillar of the Community
fourmack's Avatar
New Zealand
1679 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2016  5:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fourmack to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Excellent ---THANK YOU
Cheers Don

Vickies cents and GB Farthings nut.
"Old" is a figure of speech and nothing more
Bedrock of the Community
SHAFTA9a's Avatar
Canada
10743 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2016  3:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SHAFTA9a to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Doug...you are a walking library.
Bedrock of the Community
Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2016  5:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Agree EF-40, and thanks for the info, @colonialtokens.
  Previous TopicReplies: 10 / Views: 1,974Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.33 seconds to rattle this change. Forums