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Japanese Type Set Winding Down... Looking For Some History Now

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Finn235's Avatar
United States
6130 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2016  11:29 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
As most of you who follow my posts have probably gathered, my primary collecting focus for this year has been a type set of Japanese modern coins 1870-2016, supplemented with whatever Tokugawa coins catch my fancy. This is all going into 20-pocket 2X2 pages in a binder, so that I am not constricted to collect what someone thinks I "should" collect.

To make the collection "pop" I am going to space the pages with ID info for each of the coins, plus a short write-up detailing how the coins fit into Japanese history. I have noticed a number of things (e.g. Meiji introduced the "Rising Sun" series at the conclusion of the first Sino-Japanese war (1 and 5 sen) and Russo-Japanese war (10, 20, 50 sen) to reduce the silver content after massive war borrowing took its toll on the economy) but a lot of things seem to be difficult to track down. Coin websites fail to menation history, and history websites obviously don't care about coins.

Is anyone aware of a website that can reconcile the two? I really don't want to fill my album with falsehoods and assumptions, but I feel that a lot of the incredibly rapid changes from 1933-1950 deserve some background and explanation. I can go into detail about specifics, but don't want to scare off the reader with a TL;DR.
Edited by Finn235
08/16/2016 11:36 am
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keepcalmandcoinon's Avatar
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865 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2016  12:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add keepcalmandcoinon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Don't know if you checked out Wikipedia yet but it looks like they have a good amount of information there.
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keepcalmandcoinon's Avatar
United States
865 Posts
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keepcalmandcoinon's Avatar
United States
865 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2016  1:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add keepcalmandcoinon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Also there are lots of links you can click on that'll lead you to a page for each denomination.
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Finn235's Avatar
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6130 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2016  1:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wikipedia has a lot of good info, but there are some holes and inconsistencies:

1) If the Yen was authorized in July 1871, why were they made in circulation quantities in 1870? Were these technically just patterns? Also, what was the conversion rate between the Tokugawa coinage and Yen? I know that they were legal tender until the 1870s, but when was the cutoff?

2) Was the 5 sen coin redesigned in 1871 due to the apparent striking issues, or for unrelated reasons?

3) Why were no coins produced at all in 1872?

4) Is there any significance in the shift from square scales to V scales on base metal coins in 1877? Also, why does every catalog ignore the existence of the wide rim vs. narrow rim 1 rin coin?

5) What's the deal with years where only like 80 coins were produced in each denomination?

6) Were the redesigns in the 1930s a direct result of rising militant fascism, or just coincidental?

7) How many months was the 1938 bronze "crow" sen produced? All three designs (Crest, Crown bronze, Crow aluminum) seem to be common with large mintages, so I am guessing something like 6-8 months?

8) What exactly was the conversion rate from JPY to USD between August 1945 and the passing of Bretton Woods? The yen was set at about 1/3 of a US cent by 1950, but that doesn't make sense for a coinage series that still had a 0.05 yen coin.

Fairly basic questions that I have not been able to find an answer to.
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Mister Kairu's Avatar
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1911 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2016  2:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mister Kairu to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Although I can't really help with your questions (other than perhaps gxseries would know since I contacted him for Japan type set questions before), just wanted to note I like how you are making the album more than just a storage for your coins. I too am starting to add some pictures to my ATB silver proof Dansco of my family as we visit different national parks so it becomes a coin album with a little more meaning! :)
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bungle's Avatar
Japan
349 Posts
 Posted 08/17/2016  09:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bungle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1) If the Yen was authorized in July 1871, why were they made in circulation quantities in 1870? Were these technically just patterns? Also, what was the conversion rate between the Tokugawa coinage and Yen? I know that they were legal tender until the 1870s, but when was the cutoff?

The M3(1870) yen coins were meant to be used as Trade dollars.
The others I guess are like the euro coins minted 1999-2001.

According to Japanese Wikipedia:
Conversion rate was 4000 mon = 16 shu = 4 bu = 1 ryo = 1 yen = 1.5g pure gold.
Exchangeable Until M21(1888) for gold/silver, M29(1896) for others.



2) Was the 5 sen coin redesigned in 1871 due to the apparent striking issues, or for unrelated reasons?

Yes, striking issues with the dragon.


3) Why were no coins produced at all in 1872?

There are gold coins dated M5(1872)
Some coins were produced in 1872 dated M4(1871)


4) Is there any significance in the shift from square scales to V scales on base metal coins in 1877? Also, why does every catalog ignore the existence of the wide rim vs. narrow rim 1 rin coin?

There does not appear to be much significance in the change to V scales.
Regarding the 1 rin coins, the JNDA catalog only states that there exist coins with non standard diameters.
"Because the manufacturing process differed from that of other coins."


5) What's the deal with years where only like 80 coins were produced in each denomination?
To give as gifts. (According to Japanese Wikipedia...)


6) Were the redesigns in the 1930s a direct result of rising militant fascism, or just coincidental?

Which design? The brass Crow sen design was chosen from designs entered by the public.
The crow is Yatagarasu (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three..._crow#Japan)
By itself it is no more fascist than the badge of Japan's national soccer team.
However under different circumstances the design may have been less nationalistic.

7) How many months was the 1938 bronze "crow" sen produced? All three designs (Crest, Crown bronze, Crow aluminum) seem to be common with large mintages, so I am guessing something like 6-8 months?

I don't know the start date, but they switched to aluminium after a change in the
law on June 1st. My guess is 5 months from January - May.
BTW These are brass (90% copper, 10% zinc), not bronze. Brass contains no tin.


8) What exactly was the conversion rate from JPY to USD between August 1945 and the passing of Bretton Woods? The yen was set at about 1/3 of a US cent by 1950, but that doesn't make sense for a coinage series that still had a 0.05 yen coin.

According to this article, initially 5-10 yen per dollar, then pegged at 15.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?...392509&hl=en

But if you were in Hong Kong and had been forced to accept military monopoly money, then it was worthless.
On 6 September 1945, the Japanese Ministry of Finance announced that all military yen became void. Overnight the military yen literally became useless pieces of paper.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan...r_redemption
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Finn235's Avatar
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6130 Posts
 Posted 08/17/2016  2:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great info, Bungle! Thanks!

I now see on Wikipedia where the 1 ryo = 1 yen conversion is spelled out. Funny, because I never imagined that the final ryo would have contained so little gold, even at severely reduced size and fineness. I had read that the 4 mon coin was usable as a rin, but that source also stated that a rin was 1/1000 of a sen, or 1/10,000 of a yen, so I dismissed it as unreliable.

And as far as the "fascist" designs go, I suppose this is the only one that truly applies:

http://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces13956.html

What puzzles me about the 1938 sen:

Old (pawlonia) design: 87.6 million
Brass Yatagarasu design: 113.6 million
Aluminum Yatagarasu design: 45.5 million

I struggle to imagine that so many old style sen could have been struck in less than a month, so I guess we are looking at maybe 2-3 months for this one year type? Maybe they were made in parallel, or the S13 coins were made in 1937? That certainly seems to be the case with the reasonably high mintages for some of the S64 coins, considering that he died seven days into his 64th year.
Edited by Finn235
08/17/2016 2:45 pm
Valued Member
bungle's Avatar
Japan
349 Posts
 Posted 08/18/2016  11:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bungle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see why you say that about this coin:
http://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces13956.html

Pure nickel 5 sen, 1933-1938
1. New design at the beginning of the occupation of Manchuria
2. An emergency reserve of nickel
3. Sun rays
4. The bird is a golden kite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order...Golden_Kite)



The 1938 sen, I forgot about the paulownia sen and misread the text.

1. Old (pawlonia) design: 87.6 million
This was made until about June 1st, presumably for 5 months from January-May.

2. Brass Yatagarasu design: 113.6 million

This was made starting on or soon after June 1st, the date of the revisions to the law.

3. Aluminum Yatagarasu design: 45.5 million
The text says, in a rather literal translation: Since copper was getting hard to procure, after the law changed they soon switched to aluminium.
Meaning they made the brass coins for a short while, but were soon forced to ditch copper altogether.

I can't find the production period of the brass coins.
Maybe they just decided to use up all the planchets that had been made, instead of melting them down.

Reference: page 90 of this (Japan Mint history, in Japanese):
http://www.mint.go.jp/wp-content/up...df/ayumi.pdf
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